questions about pickups and magnets

[beinz]

ok, this may be longwinded, so i apologize right off the bat.
my question is about types of ceramics, and how they affect tone.
i have read some stating that there is not much difference between c5 and c8,
but you would imagine their must be some difference? obviously c8 is stronger, therefore you would imagine it has more bite than c5? anyone have any personal experience with this?
my next question is pertaining to how the magnets behave inside the pickup.
the answer may be obvious, so forgive my ignorance.
i am trying to design a custom humbucker, pulling ideas i like from others i have seen and heard. i play a baritone A-A, occasionally G-A. i have been playing a gibson explorer for years and have grown to love the ceramic growl of the 500t in the bridge.
i am hoping to build a custom prs dc knock off in the next year with a 27" scale to better suit my tuning, and have been reading and learning trying to come up with the recipe for my ideal sounding pickups. i play mostly hard rockin-metal with an industrial edge, and love that clean / yet heavy metal guitar sound. the pickup that caught my attention was the guitarheads fatpole humbucker. i like the concept of fat slugs only,
although i will likely go a size between theirs and standard.
after looking into having custom pieces of 1/4" 1018 steel cut, and reading about the concept of slug magnets used on old single coils, i had the thought, what if i use ceramic 1/4 slugs instead of 1018 steel.
NOW, i have no idea how this may affect the tone as apposed to the standard steel poles with a magnet underneath, i guess my train of though is it eliminates the need for steel, and ceramic, now just ceramic.
if anyone would care to share their 2 cent regarding these questions, a noob would be greatly appreciative!!

[big_teee]

C5 and C8 Magnets are very similar in gauss strength.
I have both in Bar Magnets.
They sound very similar, tonally the C8 sounds richer IMO.
A8 Magnets are similar in strength, but have the Alnico tone.
As far as Ceramic slugs, those would have to be cut special, good luck coming up with those.
If your not a winder already, I would recommend starting with basic pickup designs and parts.
Get the hang of winding before you get to designing and getting exotic.
My 2 Cents.
Good Luck,
Terry

[beinz]

thanks for your reply,
i wouldn't attempt anything too fancy before butchering a few cheapo proto's first.
i am just more curious as to how that config may sound or work as opposed to the standard config.
im not even sure how much it would cost to get mags cut to that size, may end up not being worthwhile? who knows?
i just thought it a cleaner, simpler build.

[big_teee]

thanks for your reply,
i wouldn't attempt anything too fancy before butchering a few cheapo proto's first.
i am just more curious as to how that config may sound or work as opposed to the standard config.
im not even sure how much it would cost to get mags cut to that size, may end up not being worthwhile? who knows?
i just thought it a cleaner, simpler build.

Here's some parts you can look at.
Guitar Pickup Parts - Mojotone.com
I would look at the Seymour Duncan site.
If it's worth playing SD has probably already made it.
Here's a link to a list of the pickups and tones they make.
Seymour Duncan
It's a neat hobby, and the possibilities are endless.
If you build a conventional pickup with a bar magnet, you can change out the magnet to see what you like.
you can try A2-A8, C5,C8.
Good Luck,
Terry

[Mike Sulzer]

Changing magnets can have a complicated effect on the sound because there are three properties that can change:
1. the field strength,
2. the permeability,
3. the conductivity.

The field affects how loud the pickup is, and thus the level of amp distortion, etc. It also effects the vibration of the string.

The permeability affects how much applied fields are amplified, and so it can affect how loud the pickup is, as well the coil inductance, and so the resonant frequency.

The conductivity affects the eddy currents that flow when a string vibrates, and this tends to affect the frequency response, usually resulting in a dip in the mid-range.

[beinz]

thanks guys,
i have taken a fairly thorough look through seymour duncan's site, and so far they make my favorite sounding pickups. good sound is completely relative, but i'm not a fan of the emg's as many are. i like elements of a few of the s.d. buckers, the duncan custom is probably may fav so far for the bridge, its nice and fat in the low-mids, but lacks just a bit on top, the harmonics are nice as well. the duncan distortion is nice on top, but lacks on the bottom, and the invader is close as well, thick, and somewhat clear.
my only problem come in paying $80 X 2 per guitar. im hoping within the next year to begin the first of hopefully several guitar building projects. the idea of spending 4 and 5 times more than i need to on pickups doesn't sit well with me, the same idea applies to a custom guitar. i completely recognize the skill and craftsmanship that goes into quality guitars and pickups, hence the high prices. i am on a quest to learn.
my goal [within no specified length of time] is to build 12 - 24 guitars, and 6 - 12 basses. that will work out to be a lot of pickups, and a lot of money.

[beinz]

another question,
how does the polarity of using one magnet work as opposed to using two?
using one mag, the north side touches one set of screws/poles, the south side touched the other set.
i have seen bass buckers with open backs that have two mags, one directly under each set of poles.
how does the north/south aspect apply when using separate mags?
i ask because my understanding is that these mags are polarized along the thin edges, so i understand how it works in a one mag scenario,
but when using two thinner mags, it appears they are sitting directly under the screws/poles, aligned with the middle of the mag? i could be misunderstood...
what polarity would be assigned to which set of poles/screws using 2 mags?

[LtKojak]

Don't you think this thread belongs to the Beginner's Corner?

Just sayin'...

[David Schwab]

Don't you think this thread belongs to the Beginner's Corner?

Just sayin'...

I was just thinking that....

[LtKojak]

I was just thinking that....

Great minds think alike, it seems...

[big_teee]

another question,
how does the polarity of using one magnet work as opposed to using two?
using one mag, the north side touches one set of screws/poles, the south side touched the other set.
i have seen bass buckers with open backs that have two mags, one directly under each set of poles.
how does the north/south aspect apply when using separate mags?
i ask because my understanding is that these mags are polarized along the thin edges, so i understand how it works in a one mag scenario,
but when using two thinner mags, it appears they are sitting directly under the screws/poles, aligned with the middle of the mag? i could be misunderstood...
what polarity would be assigned to which set of poles/screws using 2 mags?

The Firebird Mini bucker does this with 2 Magnets stood on edge.
One Magnet is North up, and the other is South up.
To tie them together, they sit on a thin piece of Steel.
T

[beinz]

sorry for not placing this thread properly, i just registered yesterday and threw it out there without realizing where it was going.

[beinz]

thanks, ill have to look into the design of the mini a bit further...

[big_teee]

thanks, ill have to look into the design of the mini a bit further...

For what you are discribing tone and sound wise.
I recommend a good hot Blade Pickup.
Humbucker
You will see the blade bobbins, and blades.
wind a good hot pickup with 43 ga wire.
In the 14-16k Range.
With a good hot C8 Magnet, and your set.
I make a blade hybrid I like.
I uses 43 ga wire on the blade bobbin, and 42 ga wire on the Screw Bobbin.
I face the Blade toward the bridge and the screws toward the neck.
I have this in a reverse head Ibanez copy.
I use the blade hybrid Zebra in the bridge, I have a convientional Double screw Zebra in the neck.
You can change the tone with what type of magnet you use.
I ended up with as hot as I could charge A2s in both.
The pickup is plenty hot, and the A2 Magnet Warms up the tone.
Not as brittle sounding as the Ceramic.
The magnet tone is strictly whatever tone you prefer.
Good Luck,
Terry

[beinz]

thanks for the suggestion, i will look into the "blades" a bit more...