questions about pickups and magnets

[David Schwab]

The only issue with the Mojo blade bobbins is they are wider than normal, so regular size humbucker magnets are too narrow. I believe they will have proper size magnets soon. I made a couple of these with the same parts I bought elsewhere and had to make a steel shim. I also had to cobble together a baseplate (or at least drill four holes for the mounting screws).

[beinz]

yeah im thinking a similar type of idea...

[beinz]

so, ive been reading [and hopefully learning] more on how different gauges affect the sound, also looking at the more popular humbuckers out there and seeing how they have wound them.
i am now understanding how the actual dcr is almost irrelevant as it's tone changes with different gauge of wire. it has been suggested by a number of you gentleman to wind to "number of turns" not dcr. after reading about mismatching coils, my question is; is the mismatch on dcr, or number of turns? my guess is number of turns. reason i ask is, say i wind one coil awg42 7000 turns, and the other coil awg43 7500 turns, the turns are mismatched, but the dcr of the 43 suggests a hotter pickup at 7.5k[roughly], but might sound more like a common awg42 at 5.5k[roughly]. to reiterate, is it the tone i want to mismatch slightly in terms of dcr, or the number of turns regardless of awg variances between coils?
thanks guys...

[copperheadroads]

Heres a quote i like
"DC resistance (Rdc) tells you as much about a pickup's tone and output as the shoe size tells you about a person's intelligence!-Bill Lawrence"
Use turn count not dcr
your pickup is an interesting project & great learning experience ,When you actually start winding you probably have to change your plans for one of your coils

[MrCandy]

so, ive been reading [and hopefully learning] more on how different gauges affect the sound, also looking at the more popular humbuckers out there and seeing how they have wound them.
i am now understanding how the actual dcr is almost irrelevant as it's tone changes with different gauge of wire. it has been suggested by a number of you gentleman to wind to "number of turns" not dcr. after reading about mismatching coils, my question is; is the mismatch on dcr, or number of turns? my guess is number of turns. reason i ask is, say i wind one coil awg42 7000 turns, and the other coil awg43 7500 turns, the turns are mismatched, but the dcr of the 43 suggests a hotter pickup at 7.5k[roughly], but might sound more like a common awg42 at 5.5k[roughly]. to reiterate, is it the tone i want to mismatch slightly in terms of dcr, or the number of turns regardless of awg variances between coils?
thanks guys...

I must admit that it is nice to see a real enthusiast here. The following information may be useful to you:
Mismatch of the coils can be 2 types - it is number of turns and wire gauge, also the following two in combination.
Number of turns mismatch reduces the effect of humbucker for frequencies that are in phase.
Wire gauge mismatch gives different inductance, that affect coil frequency and capacity characteristics.
Under equal conditions if we will take 2 coils, then the coil with thiner gauge gives a lower resonant peak but also it gives lower Q factor.
You can see some samples of what you are willing to do with some technical information here (samples with NofT mismatch to be exact)
And also if you want to wind 42 AWG 7000 NofT in a standart guitar bobbin it wont be enough space.
If you use screws/slugs humbucker type and want your humbucker to sound hotter and heavier then wind more thiner gauge on slugs it will help.
If you use slugs/slugs then set thicker gauge closer to the bridge, that will help 2.

I wish you every success
MrCandy

[beinz]

im sure i will. im only trying at this point to narrow down what gauges i may need, and from there type of wire [pe, fv spn]
i like the duncan custom, which from what i understand is awg43 wound to 14k?, not sure what wire type. i like the tightness on the low end, and low mid. i have read in a few threads where people take one coil of a duncan custom [or similar wind],
and pair it with a more vintage coil [med wound awg42]. i would be curious to hear how that may turn out.
i play baritone A-A, so i need tighten the low end, without making it disappear, but still keep it sounding like a guitar in the midrange... i have gibson 496r/500t on mine right now, i like the sound overall, but want to play around a bit...

[beinz]

thanks for the advice, this community is very helpful for a "green" guy trying to learn.
what i am thinking is slugs on both coils [bridge and neck], and possible oversized, 1/4".
from what ive read, larger screw pole [hexpoles] can get a bit hot, i want a beefy tone, but not overdoing it.
i got the idea from guitarheads fatpole humbucker

GuitarHeads Fat Pole Humbuckers Set of 2 - Black or White

in the end i may find out that standard sized slugs are a better way to go, not sure yet.
now, not sure how the effect of fatter poles will interact with the tightening and thinning of thinner gauge string.
i would like to get the best of both worlds, tight, but emphasized lowend.
what would be the max number of turns for awg 42 and 43 on a standard sized bobbin?

[copperheadroads]

And also if you want to wind 42 AWG 7000 NofT in a standart guitar bobbin it wont be enough space.

I just threw some hints ,Its great to figure out problems on your own

[big_teee]

im sure i will. im only trying at this point to narrow down what gauges i may need, and from there type of wire [pe, fv spn]
i like the duncan custom, which from what i understand is awg43 wound to 14k?, not sure what wire type. i like the tightness on the low end, and low mid. i have read in a few threads where people take one coil of a duncan custom [or similar wind],
and pair it with a more vintage coil [med wound awg42]. i would be curious to hear how that may turn out.
i play baritone A-A, so i need tighten the low end, without making it disappear, but still keep it sounding like a guitar in the midrange... i have gibson 496r/500t on mine right now, i like the sound overall, but want to play around a bit...

With all due respect, the important thing is to start winding somewhere.
You can read and analyze, but until you start winding and experimenting, You won't really have any answers.
I recommend just start by winding a basic Pickup.
Something like a Stewmac Kit.
As you wind and experiment you will figure out along the way what works for you.
The most important thing in home winding IMO is to wind and test, wind and test.
When I say test, I mean put it in a guitar and see and hear what it sounds like.
Once the basic concepts are learned and achieved, then you can build on that.
I'm going to leave all the charts and graphs to the factories and engineers.
That's all good, but not required to make a good Home wound guitar pickup.
Good Luck,
Rock On!
B_T

[MrCandy]

thanks for the advice, this community is very helpful for a "green" guy trying to learn.
what i am thinking is slugs on both coils [bridge and neck], and possible oversized, 1/4".
from what ive read, larger screw pole [hexpoles] can get a bit hot, i want a beefy tone, but not overdoing it.
i got the idea from guitarheads fatpole humbucker

GuitarHeads Fat Pole Humbuckers Set of 2 - Black or White

in the end i may find out that standard sized slugs are a better way to go, not sure yet.
now, not sure how the effect of fatter poles will interact with the tightening and thinning of thinner gauge string.
i would like to get the best of both worlds, tight, but emphasized lowend.
what would be the max number of turns for awg 42 and 43 on a standard sized bobbin?

1) More thicker the pole - the sound became more tight, but it loses in transparent. In your case seek the compromise.
2) For the wire we use(thin isolation an high caliber stability) 43 AWG in standart g. bobbin=7000 on CNC, 42 AWG in standart g. bobbin=5600 on CNC with some free space for the tape and conductors left.

[beinz]

i completely agree, and that is what i will do to start for sure. just curious about the possibilities, and you guys have alot more answers than i do, just trying to soak it all up...

[beinz]

i need of some more expertise!!!
so, i have began ordering supplies for humbuckers.
i am shopping out simple black hb covers, plastic without holes from mojotone, and after emailing tom about baseplates, he suggested either modding the cover, or the baseplates, as the cover is deeper than his baseplates, and will leave too large a gap between top of cover and top of poles/slugs. i have seen pickups without baseplates, just open backs, and all parts just waxed or epoxied in place. my question is, if i go without a baseplate, using a 4 cond wire, where to i sent the ground as it usually connects to the baseplate? if need be, i will likely cut my own baseplate, but i would prefer to wax/epoxy the whole deal without a baseplate, just need to know where that ground goes?
thanx

[copperheadroads]

Without any metal in a baseplate what are you going to ground to ? nothing unless you find you design noisy & you might need shielding
I have made some humbucker sized p-90's with those black mojo covers & you dont need a nickel baseplate ,I suggest making one from plastic

[big_teee]

i need of some more expertise!!!
so, i have began ordering supplies for humbuckers.
i am shopping out simple black hb covers, plastic without holes from mojotone, and after emailing tom about baseplates, he suggested either modding the cover, or the baseplates, as the cover is deeper than his baseplates, and will leave too large a gap between top of cover and top of poles/slugs. i have seen pickups without baseplates, just open backs, and all parts just waxed or epoxied in place. my question is, if i go without a baseplate, using a 4 cond wire, where to i sent the ground as it usually connects to the baseplate? if need be, i will likely cut my own baseplate, but i would prefer to wax/epoxy the whole deal without a baseplate, just need to know where that ground goes?
thanx

I recommend using the baseplate with regular bobbins.
That way if you want to change something its not all epoxied together.
Once you have the pickup like you want, then install the cover.
Just cut a notch in the cover.
You will not see what you trim, it will be down inside the guitar.
For example, if you want to change the magnet type, you can.
If you want to rewire the bobbins, you can.
On the other hand if you make the pickup and expoxy it in the cover.
Your done if you like it or not.
Good Luck
Terry

[beinz]

thanks, im not an electronics buff by any means, just wasnt sure if it needs to connect somewhere, or i guess it just connects to nothing and gets potted?!?
i just dont want to get a big shock one day by eating a mic or something...