potting without pro setup?

[Rodent]

Then, the completed coil assemblies and shielding shell parts are set into a silicone rubber mold and are encapsulated in black West Systems epoxy. That provides the hard outer protective shell.

This is the next step I'm working towards. having not seen it, I'm having trouble imagining how to consistently suspend the coil within the mold while the epoxy cures. I'm sure it's simple, and will be one of those doh! moments when I see it ... but then this is getting OT from this topic (and prolly even for the beginner's section) Maybe it would make a good topic for the main forum?

[copperheadroads]

The Question that I have & not figured out yet, is ....Why do so many search for alternatives to wax ? other than potting with lacquer to be correct to an certain era .
If any pickups need potting (from heavy 10 minute potting to just a dunk in wax ) it works very easily /
Out of the wax pot for a rubdown to remove the wax & then add logo & or write the name on it with the desired marker ,wait 10 minutes the wrap & ship .....Lacquer takes days

[Rodent]

me personally? I don't like the smell or the mess of wax potted pickups that get set on my workbench only to have some of the wax crumble off and grind into a piece of unfinished body heading out to the paint shop. but that's just me

[Chuck H]

Unless a pickup is double dipped (dunked back into the pot at a cooler temp to form a wax layer) there will be NO signs of wax buildup. It drains off and leaves a really tiny residual. A lot of makers do double dip though.

FWIW I just received some Big T Custom pickups (big_teee). Custom to order and fully awesome too. No residual wax to crumble off and non microphonic standing directly in front of my cranked amp (high gain TW style).

The only drawback to wax is that it can re melt. But the way I see it, if you expose your guitar to temps that will melt the wax potting in the pickup you don't really care about the guitar or it's pickups anyway. I use wax when I pot.

[Bruce Johnson]

I don't get why you think the epoxy potting takes extra effort. With the CPES, you mix the two parts in a cup, dab it on, and let it dry. No heated bath, no dunking, no vacuum, no real cleanup of excess. Other than the drying time, application of the CPES is only a minute or two per coil.

Pretty much the same with the West Systems epoxy encapsulation. I'm using custom molds and brass shells because these are special size and shape pickups for high-end basses. But if I were making pickups in standard shell forms, I could buy plastic covers, lay in the coils, and mix and pour in the black epoxy to surround them. Again, the labor per pickup is very minimal.

I went with epoxy potting for both labor savings and long-term durability. The only real down side is the cure time. I guess the epoxy is more expensive than wax, but not that much. A $65 kit of CPES will do several hundred pickups, at least.

[big_teee]

I do lots of experimenting with pickups.
I have redone some lately, that I have had a few years.
With wax, they are easy to tear down and rewind.
I made bass soapbar humbuckers, I made them similar to how I make guitar pickups.
I glued the coils on a plastic baseplate, and wax pot with the soapbar pickup cover installed.
If you want to redo them, no sweat.
I really think the epoxy is more to conceal how you make them.
Like I say, whatever you like is fine with me, I see no reason for me to leave wax potting.
It is very cheap and easy to do.
When I started winding I melted my wax in a coffee can and dunked them.
I would warm the wax with a small lamp oil latern base.
I was outdoors so no fire hazard.
I also like the wax pot for taking things apart.
Old hard brittle pickups will come apart easier if you dip them in the wax pot for several minutes.
As far as labor savings, there is no particular labor to wax potting.
Stick them in, and take them out. Easy Peezy!
They will cool in minutes.
So the Moral of the Story, is as Pickup Winders, we have Options.
Use whatever method works for You.
If you don't like smelling wax, you can smell lacquer, or epoxy.
No particular Right way on Potting, Just Different Ways.
Peace and Tone to All,
B_T

[Joe Gwinn]

According to the patent (don't recall the patent number), Leo's original reason for wax potting was to eliminate condensation and sweat from getting into the coil and deadening the sound (water has a very high dielectric constant, about 80, and is very lossy), not squealing. Anyway. Leo would pot the coils solid.

While a cover would probably handle the sweat problem, condensation (when a cold guitar (was in the car) was brought into a warm and humid night club) will find a way in. Once the moisture gets into the coil, it comes out only slowly, and so will tend to accumulate.

So, I would saturate the coil.

[copperheadroads]

me personally? I don't like the smell or the mess of wax potted pickups that get set on my workbench only to have some of the wax crumble off and grind into a piece of unfinished body heading out to the paint shop. but that's just me

I you don't like the smell use scented candles ..but wax potting can be a mess ,especially if you doing a quick dunk/flash pot & use hair dryer to clean up the rest ,the hair dryer melting wax & blowing it everywhere .I make sure I'm not wearing my Sunday's finest .
Wax is not easy to wash off your clothes

[Rick Turner]

I'm with Bruce on wondering why CPES...or wax...is such a big deal. And while I certainly can smell melted paraffin wax, it's not overwhelming compared to what goes on in my spray booth!

I do think there are issues with the final hardness of a potted coil. For a while I potted with thin superglue dripped onto the coils; then I tried shellac; then I finally went back to wax, and I think the sound of my pickups improved to say nothing of how much faster I could final assemble a pickup. There is a damping factor to any of these materials which probably affects the mechanical resonance of the entire pickup. I should probably try a double wax potting...first the coils as I now do, and then instead of filling the cover with coils in place with epoxy, I should try just filling the whole thing up with wax. Next round...

[big_teee]

I save my coffee napkins from drinking coffee in the mornings from my house.
I use them to wipe the wax off pickups, when I take pickups out of the wax pot.
It beats just throwing them in the landfill, they work fine for soaking up wax.
a small frugile tip.
If you're smelling wax real bad, that is a number one sign of the wax being too hot.
If you keep it just above melting, not much fuming.
If your wax is flaking badly, it needs to be thinned.
I use lamp oil, you can use mineral oil, or the more expensive bees wax.
The Liquid paraffin lamp oil is a much cheaper alternative, that I like.
If you have ever rewound a Speed Bump pickup, they held the cover on with wax.
The last step, was to take the pickup out of the pot upside down and let cool full of wax.
When I pot a pickup with an attached cover, I drain all the hot wax that will run out the corner holes.
T

[Bruce Johnson]

I do think there are issues with the final hardness of a potted coil. For a while I potted with thin superglue dripped onto the coils; then I tried shellac; then I finally went back to wax, and I think the sound of my pickups improved to say nothing of how much faster I could final assemble a pickup. There is a damping factor to any of these materials which probably affects the mechanical resonance of the entire pickup.

Yeah, I agree. That's one of the things that I really like about the CPES. It doesn't cure to rock hard like superglue or other epoxies. It always stays a little rubbery. The potted coils can be bent and squeezed and pushed around a bit. To me, that's really important for long term durability of the pickup. If the potting (whatever type) dries hard and cracks somewhere in the future, it will likely snap one turn of the wire too. I don't want my pickups to ever fail, for as long as the bass holds together. So, I want the coil potting fully saturated, but rubbery, and the whole works environmentally sealed up in hard epoxy. I'm looking at it as a mechanical engineer.

[Rick Turner]

Thumbs up on that.

BTW, I've not heard of any long term issues with Alembic pickups, even the ones I made over 40 years ago. They were double potted or even triple potted...from about '72 to '74 or '75 first with the coil bobbins in a two part urethane, then that assembly again in two part urethane in a silicone rubber mold. Then we switched to the bonded wire, but still did the two stage urethane cast. When I get back into the silicone rubber mold system, I'll do wax, then the urethane. I did my earliest pickups...circa 1969...in clear polyester, and they're still fine. No vacuum at that point.

[Rick Turner]

And the very title here...Potting without a pro setup?

I made pickups as a pro for several years without "a pro setup"! OK, it got more pro as the years advanced, but the earliest years of Alembic pickups were made with a scant few hundred bucks in gear. Yes, I got very lucky very early in the game, but you can still set up to make pickups for less than the cost of the computer you're using to read this post.

[David Schwab]

I use a paraffin warmer that is intended to have people with joint pain stick their hands in it. You can leave it on all day and it regulates the temperature.

I tried potting in varnish, and did that for a while, but a few times ended up with microphonic pickups. I let the bobbins sit in the wax for 10 minutes. It gets all the way inside the coil with no vacuum.

Then I encapsulate them in epoxy. Usually I use plastic covers, but I also do them in rubber molds.

[John_H]

It was about 105* here yesterday. I potted with solar power.