poly-coated wire connection?

[big_teee]

I'm pretty good on basic winding, and basic pickup winding questions.
I just use a commercial made winder.
For winder building questions?
I recommend starting a new thread in this area.
https://music-electronics-forum.com/...splay.php?f=18
Tools and coil winding gear.
We have a bunch of guys that are great at winder building and questions there.
T

[Dolmetscher007]

... loose scatter
... tight scatter are in red?
... hand wind. -- As opposed to...???
... usually wind around 90-91%
...148×53.6=7932.8
[ATTACH=CONFIG]51028[/ATTACH]

All of the above terms that you used in your last post are not something i know how to interpret. I do know that "Scatter" refers to the fact that a machine like a CNC can wrap a coil in perfect parallel layers with little cross-over of wires from left-to-right, whereas when you move the wire left-to-right by hand, there will just naturally be some overlapping of wires because you aren't moving at a perfect rate that is sync'ed up with the motor wrapping the coil.
A loose scatter must mean that you move left-to-right more quickly causing a lot of overlapping of wires, where as a "tight scatter" sounds like you mean you go slower from left-to-right, making the overlaps closer together, and probably less frequent as well.
I do not, however, know what "loose machine / tight machine" means. Since you are holding the wire between two fingers, I don't really know what "tight" means. I am sure that if the wire snaps... that was too tight. And if the wire is just saggy and turning into a copper birds nest on ya... that's too loose. But... I don't know what to shoot for, and I really don't know what 90-91% means.

[big_teee]

That is the terminology of the original program developer.
Mr Salvarsan, came up with that.
If you look at the winds per layer, that is in correlation with the amount of scatter.
100% machine, would mean all wind turns side by side touching filling the entire layer.(93 winds)
62% loose would mean some overlap, and only 58 wind turns would fill the layer, thus loose scatter.
I use the program to see what wire will fit on the bobbin and how many turns the bobbin will take to fill.
Which is a great tool for a new wind of a new pickup type.
On repetitive winds, I recommending having a notebook with all your favorite winds listed.
Here's an example of what you can put in your notebook.
https://music-electronics-forum.com/...9&d=1432942278

[Dolmetscher007]

Here's an example of what you can put in your notebook.
https://music-electronics-forum.com/...9&d=1432942278

This is awesome man! Thanks!

If you get a chance, I have a couple of question about your spreadsheet

• Polarity: I know that Magnets have a N and a S polarity. But for this form, does this mean "Which pole is facing... up?"
• Gauss: I know that Gauss refers to how intensely "charged" a pickup's magnets are, but how does one measure Gauss to record in this spreadsheet?
• Wire Type: This refers to coating, right? All wire is 100% copper. There is also the gauge, but other than that... the "Wire Type" would be like: "Poly, Enamel... etc."?
• Microphonics Test: I've never heard of this at all.
• Thread Base Plate: I know that some Telecaster pickups have a brass plate, but I don't know why, or when to use one, and when to not. (???)
• Screws, Springs, Tubing Etc.: I have seen on StewMac some foam that people cram under pickups to keep them "up", and I know that on all of my guitars the pickups have screws on each side that has a spring around them to keep the pickup height under tension so that it stays at a certain height, but also won't just flop forward if you lean Fwd. Does this affect a pickups sound? If not, why record it?

Man... I feel bad. I told you I had a lot of questions.

[big_teee]

I made that sheet when I was selling and shipping some pickups.
The checkoff list is so I wouldn't forget to do or ship something
N/U North up, or south up.
Gauss is what your magnets measure
Wire type 42SPN, or 43PE, etc
Thread base plate, did that for fiber baseplates.
Screws springs tubing, Did I put them in the box?
Microphonic, and pop test, I do with test leads hooked to an amp.
There are a bunch of aids on the resource thread.
https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ad.php?t=30228
Don't worry about the small stuff, wind a pickup!
T

[copperheadroads]

I made it myself.

It has a 10,000 rpm geared motor
A speed controller that goes from 0 - 10,000

I would not be winding pickups any where near 10000 rpm , try less that 1000 .

[Alberto]

About to wind my first pickup: Strat Style. Alnico 5 poles, 42 AWG poly-coated wire, All Stewmac stuff.
[*]Is it advisable to take a resistance reading while the bobbin is still on the winder, or do you pretty much have to take it off, take a reading, and then reattach it if you are not where you wanted to be yet? [/LIST]

Thanks guys!

I would never wind a pickup to a set resistance, the number of turns counts, not the readings! I use the resistance just to know if something went wrong with the counter or the wire size.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I would never wind a pickup to a set resistance, the number of turns counts, not the readings! I use the resistance just to know if something went wrong with the counter or the wire size.

Halleluja and amen to that!

[big_teee]

I agree on the using turns for winding.
Winding is a double edge sword, and we all compare our pickups to standards of old.
Unless you're doing something new or cutting edge.
Example, with 42.
Neck bucker= 7.2-7.8K
Bridge bucker 7.8-88k Full coils
Strat 42
neck = 5.5- 5.9k
middle= 5.8-6.3k
Bridge=5.8-6.8k
If you sell pickups, everyone wants to know what the DCR is and how hot they are.
We all try to avoid that, but it goes with the players.
Another thing, some basic builders don't have counters, and wind to DCR.
I did that for several years.
Like I say here, we use what we got.
So wind by turns, but cross reference to DCR, we all do it.
T

[Slight Return]

I've been tinning the magnet wire before tying it onto the eyelets for the past few months. It works great.

Tinning the wire before tying it on guarantees a solid connection, and the wire is also much less prone to breaking on the flatwork edge due to improper handling. Tinning toughens it up quite a bit. Another benefit is you can test DCR when you're done winding simply by probing the eyelets themselves, as the tinned wires will have made an electrical connection already without further soldering. I like doing this just to make sure the pickup is reading out as expected before soldering the leads on and wax potting it.

Just tin your soldering iron tip, hold the wire taut, and run it up and down a couple inches until you can see the wire is silver from the solder. I like a couple quick passes on top of the wire then underneath. Now you're good to tie the wire onto the eyelet. Repeat for the finish wire. It's much easier to hold it taut with a homemade tensioner, which brings me to my next point:

One thing that can help ensure no wire breakage is a Velcro tensioner with a hemostat. Rob from Cavalier Pickups taught me this and it works without fail. I cut the tensioner out of single-ply pickguard material. You have two pieces, to which you attach soft (Loop) Velcro. The idea is you sandwich the magnet wire between the two pieces of soft Velcro, which are adhered to the inside of two separate pieces of single-ply pickguard material.

An 8" hemostat clamps over the pickguard material, and the wire is sandwiched between the Velcro. You can see an early version Rob made here:

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/pickup-...-redux.475685/

I've been using one of those Stewmac "Kerfing clamps" over the area of the Hemostat where it locks. Sometimes it can snap open, and scare the Bejeesus out of you. The kerfing clamp over the hemostat locking area will ensure that the hemostat doesn't unexpectedly pop open, either while you're winding, or handling the tensioner.

I've tried the Mojotone tensioner and Rob's velcro tensioner is 1,000x superior. I wind on my machine that I built out of a mini woodworking lathe, and easily hit 2500 RPM and NEVER break wire, ever. Rob winds at least at 4,000 RPM using this method and never breaks wire either. The tensioner totally prevents this from happening if set up properly.

I don't know about going to 10,000 RPM But you can certainly at least go 2500 or 4000 and probably even 5,000 using a tensioner, without fear of breaking the wire. It also gives you the benefit and pleasure of hand-guiding the wire so you can scatter wrap.

I made a thread in the Tools subforum, about a "DIY De-Reeler." I highly recommend making something like that for containing your spool of wire. When you hit higher RPM's, the wire will tend to whip around everywhere, and that can cause it to catch or snag or break.

By containing the magnet wire spool in a plastic jar, with a dowel in the center to keep it stable, and guiding the wire through a wooden bead epoxied into the top of the jar, I NEVER have issues with de-reeling.

I've also become a believer in Wisker Disks. Especially for 5lb spools, where the spools flange out and can cause a lot of problems with the wire de-reeling. I posted about this in this thread, and included pictures of the housing I'm using now for my 5lb spools:

http://www.tdpri.com/threads/my-home....770387/page-2

Long Story Short: Make a Velcro tensioner so you don't have to worry about wire breaking. Problem solved. Tin the magnet wire before tying it onto the eyelets. Don't worry about DCR mid-wind. Rely on turn count, find recipes you like and stick to them. Reserve DCR for checking pups after they're finished, for quality control.

I'll also add the Velcro tensioner has a learning curve. The way you lay the wire onto the pad, where you put the jaws of the hemostat, how much you tighten it, it's very touchy-feel and requires some experimentation. Same goes for using the thing. You'll find that you can angle it up or down, and move it forward or back closer or farther away from the bobbin, and vary your tension that way. You have a great amount of control with it and set up properly, should never EVER break wire. I've gone through over 15lbs of wire in the past few months winding at 2500 RPM and didn't break the wire a single time, except for one spool that was defective and had de-reeling issues. Which I am hoping the Wisker Disk will prevent from ever happening again.

[big_teee]

I'll go with most of what slight return says.
However the tinning the poly wire prior to putting it in the eyelet, is an unnecessary step.
Poly wire solders very easily,
The velcro tensioning sounds ok.
The 2500 rpms would be a bit faster than I like to wind.
If you break that down further?
A 5000 turn humbucker bobbin?
At 2500rpm, 2 minutes.
At 1250 4 minutes
At 1000 5 minutes
At 625 8 minutes.
If you are a hobbyist, all of these speeds, and times are reasonable.
It is important to wind at a speed you have proper control.
If you are a beginner starting out, I recommend starting slow, and build up to what your maximum speed is.
Like driving a car, beginners start slow and learn the basics before driving at full speed on the autobahn.
T

[Alberto]

I use Hi-Hat felt washers and clutch for tensioning and the wire never breaks.

[big_teee]

I use my fingers, and I don't break a lot of wire either.
If I do break wire, it is usually 44, and not often.
The trick to successful winding is to do lots of it.
If you only wind on occasion, which is my trend now, it's all a struggle!
T

[John_H]

My favorite for a home made tensioner is the adhesive backed felt pads used as furniture protectors. They have a rigid backing, dense felt, and then a soft felt surface. I stick those to little 'C' clamps.

Wow, 2,500 rpm. That's moving. My winder maxes out at ~2,100. It'll do it no problem, but I usually wind at 1,200 to maintain consistency from one pickup to another.

This is my winder at 1,500 rpm.

[kayakerca]

I use Hi-Hat felt washers and clutch for tensioning and the wire never breaks.

My felt tensioner felt sounds very similar. I use thick piano hammer felt.