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  • Magnets in Pickups

    Some Comments on Magnets in Pickups

    The wildest of rumors on that subject rattle around, sent on their way by the manufacturer’s clever sales-managers, and naively and reverently believed by most guitarists. The least of what is propagated holds any truth, though.

    The individual variants are said to have different sound characters, e. g.: “Alnico 2 sounds this way but Alnico 5 conversely sounds that way“, etc. It is noteworthy that many strong contradictions between such verdicts can be found. In short: these dictums are complete nonsense for the most part. Rather, the following holds: a pickup fitted with a stronger magnet will – with everything else in the pickup’s build being equal – deliver a higher output voltage compared to a pickup with a weaker magnet. For example, the output signal of the “quieter” pickup may on the oscilloscope screen look like this:

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    Feeding this signal to an amplifier with a setting that could be characterized as "slight crunch“ may just about result in what is considered an undistorted sound. However, a “loud“ pickup that has – except for the magnet – the same properties (in particular the same transmission frequency response), will deliver this signal:

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    This latter curve is basically the same signal but shows double the amplitude. Fed to the same amplifier as above with the same settings, the high peaks will be cut off while the smaller signal components (the “undergrowth”, in a manner of speaking) remain unchanged.

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    This may not yet be perceived as "distorted“ … but the tone, and the way the playing feels to the guitarist, is somehow different, it comes across as “compressed”. The dynamics (i. e. by definition the ratio between loud and soft notes) is reduced, and the sustain seems to be longer. This is, in a nutshell, the "secret“ of different magnets. How far it actually has an effect in practice depends a lot on the amplifier and the setting of its controls.


    More detailed info: https://www.inside-electric-guitars.com







  • #2
    Don't like strong magnets?
    Put in pickups with no magnets at all!​

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by x-pro View Post
      Don't like strong magnets?
      Put in pickups with no magnets at all!​
      Well, you somehow need to magnetize the strings when using an electromagnetic PU.
      Last edited by Helmholtz; 12-09-2023, 07:57 PM.
      - Own Opinions Only -

      Comment


      • #4
        You can use an electromagnet. It is possible to measure the capacitance, according to the principle of a condenser microphone. Laser displacement measurement.
        Of course, these are varieties of methods for converting mechanical movement into electrical movement.
        Everyone just likes the old ways.

        Comment


        • #5
          http://jablog.ru/blog/gas/4181.html
          https://ailev.livejournal.com/943173.html
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXq1BvDwYnA

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, physics offers different ways to sense string vibration. Time will tell which method survives.
            BTW; I think you misinterpreted post #1. It's not about better or worse.
            Just offers an explanation why stronger magnets may "sound" different from weakers ones.
            - Own Opinions Only -

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            • #7
              The strength of the magnet can affect the amplitude of the string beat. Suppose a very strong magnet. It will attract the string to itself and thus limit its free movement. So there will be a limitation.

              This is purely hypothetical.
              Of course, manufacturers are looking for a compromise. As they do with everything.​
              Last edited by x-pro; 12-09-2023, 09:42 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                The strength of the magnet can affect the amplitude of the string beat. Suppose a very strong magnet. It will attract the string to itself and thus limit its free movement. So there will be a limitation.
                All known since at least 50 years. Maybe check H. Lemme's books.
                - Own Opinions Only -

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                • #9
                  I would think another aspect of magnets in pickups would be when they are used simultaneously as an inductor core. In which case the permeability of the material the magnet is made from will affect the response of the pickup. That said, I don't know what difference in permeability exists for the various pole piece materials.

                  And as far as laser displacement measurement... Considering that amplifiers and guitars have evolved together, and that the amplifier is perhaps the greater contribution to the overall sound, any such system would have to replicate the response of a magnetic pickup to avoid sounding discordant. Just look at how much effort was given attempting to make solid state amps behave like tube amps. Finally resorting to digital replication to get an acceptable result. Then there is tradition and nostalgia to contend with. Violins have been made the same way for over four hundred years and shows no signs of changing. While I don't expect electric guitars to enjoy the same long run I do know there is momentum for the instrument as it exists now. And...

                  I hate babysitting batteries in my guitars
                  "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                  "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                  "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                  You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                    .

                    I hate babysitting batteries in my guitars
                    That!

                    - Own Opinions Only -

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chuck H View Post

                      I hate babysitting batteries in my guitars
                      Replace the preamplifier with a chip with lower current consumption. For example, with a micro current chip. You'll change the batteries once a year.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                        Just look at how much effort was given attempting to make solid state amps behave like tube amps.
                        An amplifier is not supposed to "sound". It has a different purpose.
                        And tube amplifiers "sound" with their harmonics.​
                        Last edited by x-pro; 12-09-2023, 11:13 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                          Replace the preamplifier with a chip with lower current consumption. For example, with a micro current chip. You'll change the batteries once a year.
                          Unless all the amp manufacturers start building DAC's or the like into the front end of their amplifiers the guitar still has to put sufficient voltage into the amps input load. I'm not sure you could do that with a micro current chip. Perhaps it could be done with a floor pedal but it's still another battery to babysit.
                          Last edited by Chuck H; 12-09-2023, 11:55 PM.
                          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                          "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                          You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by x-pro View Post

                            An amplifier is not supposed to "sound". It has a different purpose.
                            And tube amplifiers "sound" with their harmonics.​
                            Ah but GUITAR amplifiers absolutely do act outside the duties of a simple reference amplifier. They are essentially signal processors that intentionally alter sound. And they currently do this using the input from magnetic pickups. If you change one you have to change both. Because people want to hear what they want to hear. Even what they're familiar with. Our ears get "trained".
                            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think we're hijacking the thread.?.

                              As to magnets predominantly only making a difference in amplitude, this is something I always suspected. But I'm not a pickup maker so I've mostly ignored it and left it to the people that DO make pickups to decide. Looking forward to any discussion surrounding this.
                              "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                              "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                              "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                              You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                              Comment

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