cnc winder controller board

[-Elepro-]

I found this module that will convert stepper motor instructions to 0-10V spindle speed instructions to a VFD. This should allow my 3 phase winder motor to play with whatever system we come up with I think.
CNC4PC

that module not allow a perfect speed control......

.... You can control most of these devices with an external analog signal (0-10VDC). That is, if there is 5VDC coming into through the control signal, the motor will run at 50% of full speed, if there was 10VDC, the motor will run at 100% of full speed....

...but a spindle can have 2000 or 5000 or 10000 or 20000 rpm at full speed and in that board there's not any calibration to set conversion factor (step/s)/V....

[David King]

Elepro,
That's an excellent point. In my case I'm just using a small, 60Hz 1740 RPM motor for the direct drive spindle. I can set the min and max speed in the VFD panel so any speeds from say 50 RPM to 2000 should be possible (2.5Hz to 100Hz for example) in ten steps...

[David Schwab]

David, I joined that Yahoo group and checked out the ELS stuff. Looks like an interesting solution for a non CNC, but still automatic winder.

In my own case I plan on getting a small Shop Fox lathe. The lathe is variable speed, and I now have a counter and a proxi switch to count and control the motor in the lathe.

So I was thinking about how to use an idea like the ELS with this setup. Since I'll be using a proxi sensor to read the platen mounted to the spindle, I can do the same thing to tell the ELS controller how fast the winder is running. So each rotation on the winder will step the traverse, if you want them synchronized, or tell it how far to move if you want a more random pattern.

This setup would allow programing a number of turns, and also a winding pattern... pretty close to CNC!

[David King]

David,
That was my thinking too. I actually want one of these for my metal lathe as I do a lot of repetitive motions with X and Y but don't need anything as potent as CNC to make my small cylindrical objects (guitar knobs.) Also I don't own a PC and have no intention of owning one.

[David Schwab]

David,
That was my thinking too. I actually want one of these for my metal lathe as I do a lot of repetitive motions with X and Y but don't need anything as potent as CNC to make my small cylindrical objects (guitar knobs.) Also I don't own a PC and have no intention of owning one.

Yeah, I don't own a PC either.

It might be overkill for a pickup, considering the small area the traverse affects, but I think I'm going to try this thing out. I might use the same setting all the time, with the exception of coil height, but I like the idea of programability.

[-Elepro-]

here's my firmware idea.... in the next days i will test display user interface....

[Dave Kerr]

Is there potential here to, rather than have fixed vs random pitch, to specify pitch per traverse? For traverse 1 through 10, have 40 turns per layer, traverse 11-15 have 35 TPL, etc. I think others have figured this out. I know others have expressed the wish.

[-Elepro-]

excuse me, my english is not good for this and i don't understand what you mean...
but:

there are 3 modes for traverse

- fix have same pitch for all layers
- in alternate mode, you can enter 2 or 3... or 10 pitch values and the traverse rotate them in the layers
- random pitch values from set min value to set max value

[Dave Kerr]

Doh! I looked at the two logic branches on either side of what you just described and didn't see that. What you've got is still a little less granular than what I meant, but certainly provides for a lot of flexibility.

[-Elepro-]

in pitch setting, values are displayed in mm and in
this because for have values in tpl, controller should have the height of bobbin.... but this is set by limit switches position not by software (look my photo in prevoius page)

in manual mode you can measure the distance between limit switches (it run from left to right switch and display value) but it don't store value...

for me to have limit switch (rather than height bobbin set by software) is the best solution because if you want you can adjust them during winding (i use this solution for many year with pc controller)

but .... i could add a measure forced routine before pitch setting for have pitch in TPL too

[David King]

Elepro,
this is looking really good to me. If I stick with using my 3 phase motor for spindle, (I like 3 phase because it's silent running and stays very cool compaired to a lot of steppers I've had the misfortune of touching) -how many pulses per revolution of spindle will I need to keep the traverse stepper in sync?

Also, I want a simple Tachometer not super accurate, +- 10%. Is that feasible in your display? Maybe you already implemented this and I'm forgetting.

[David Schwab]

for me to have limit switch (rather than height bobbin set by software) is the best solution because if you want you can adjust them during winding (i use this solution for many year with pc controller)

I like that idea also, since I work with different size bobbins. Seems like a faster way to set it if you are trying out new ideas.

[-Elepro-]

ok.... this in the pdf could be the definitive firmware idea....
now there's a forced measure routine for traverse limit switch distance before pitch setting (for have pitch displayed in TPL too)

and a video of test of jog control branch (with limit switch distance measurement)....... YouTube - cnc pickup winder

bye

[David King]

This is looking really good.
A parts list and a description of the other elements needed to assemble a working winder would be really helpful. As a machinist I know what the basics are but I have no clue what I'd need to own to make a functioning CNC winder. Do I need a PC? What would be an adequate power supply to run the steppers? Will any stepper work? (bipolar monopolar). Stepper size for speed and torque?

Will it be worthwhile to etch a PC board or is a breadboard implementation good enough until the next gen?

[-Elepro-]

.....how many pulses per revolution of spindle will I need to keep the traverse stepper in sync?

excuse me but i see now this message....
i did not understand well how you could have a good sync with your setup....
anyhow, main motor speed will has from 200 to 2000 rpm in 10 step

motors must will have 200 step/ride and driver half/step control...therefore 400 step/ride

200 rpm/60 sec * 400 step/ride = 1333hz
2000rpm/60 sec *400 step/ride = 13,333Khz

traverse will has from 0.01 to 1 mm pitch control in 100 step.... therefore traverse frequency will be 1 to 100% of main motor frequency... (with 1mm leadscrew)

all this calculus is for 1/1 motor gear ratio... but controller will can manage 1/1 2/1 & 4/1 for main and traverse... different too