cnc winder controller board

[RedHouse]

Brad,

start to connect gnd at left one (in your photo) driver.... if you don't connect gnd to other driver (wich supply controller) the signals that it receive have not any "datum point"...... and try if it run better and cw-ccw.... (that is the main motor driver)

how did you set current dip switch in driver??

here's a trapezoidal leadscrew for you... (excuse me, i will not add any inch threaded leadscrew support in my firmware.... i love my ordered and easy metric/decimal system .... and watch world map at this link )

500mm TR10x2D Trapezoidal Leadscrew Spindle - eBay (item 220436184120 end time Oct-14-09 11:53:11 PDT)

Good catch Elepro, 2nd ctrl wasn't grounded ...DOH! sorry about that.

Added the Gnd link wire to 2nd controller and your control board works very well now CW and CCW works.

Motors still run too hot. Hot is ok but burn-yer-fingers hot is not right. Might be the source I got them from (used/abused?) they look new but might be seconds or rejects at the price I got them for.

Regarding the lead-screw issue of Metric-vs-SAE, it's not about who uses the Metric system, it's about you should program for your buyers. Adding the option, for example US sales of your gauss meter out weighed metric country buyers (3 of 18) you should program for your audience, and your audience is both.

Here's how, when you do the "bobbin height" test you know how many times you turned the stepper. The programming is assuming a lead-screw pitch of 1mmm/rotation, you could have interpreted the steps-per-distance by having the user set the limit-switches at a known distance (say 25mm which almost an inch) then in your programming do a pre bobbin-height test with that known distance, then when you do your bobbin-height test it's a done deal and nobody is forced into any particular lead-screw pitch.

A no-brainer for a SDET.
(Software Development Engineer in Testing)

[David King]

Brad if your motors are too hot for you you might check the amperage setting and back it down a bit. Default is 2A. Try the 1.2A setting with dip #2 and 3 ON
(1,4 and 5 OFF) as described on page 5.

[-Elepro-]

Motors still run too hot. Hot is ok but burn-yer-fingers hot is not right. Might be the source I got them from (used/abused?) they look new but might be seconds or rejects at the price I got them for.

yes... cost of that motors is very low.... but try as David says to reduce current...

Regarding the lead-screw issue of Metric-vs-SAE, it's not about who uses the Metric system, it's about you should program for your buyers.

buyers??? no, Brad i have not buyers.... i have "friends" who pay a "symbolic contribution"...
this is not a work for me.... it's a hobby...(very expensive hobby for time i spend)

but if i forcedly must add a complicated programming feature (inch pitch leadscrew) only for "friends" who don't want make a effort to search a metric leadscrew, then:

- "hobby" becomes "work"
- "friends" becomes "buyers"
- and "cost of controller" become "COST of controller"

watch date in my first post in this thread.... and check prices of "other??" cheap cnc winder controller on the market:
do you want that this controller costs for - the time that i spend - for features it have - and for ease to find another controller for cnc winder on the market???

for the last time about metric leadscrew:
who don't want search a metric leadscrew can buy another controller...

ciao

[LtKojak]

yes... cost of that motors is very low.... but try as David says to reduce current...



buyers??? no, Brad i have not buyers.... i have "friends" who pay a "symbolic contribution"...
this is not a work for me.... it's a hobby...(very expensive hobby for time i spend)

but if i forcedly must add a complicated programming feature (inch pitch leadscrew) only for "friends" who don't want make a effort to search a metric leadscrew, then:

- "hobby" becomes "work"
- "friends" becomes "buyers"
- and "cost of controller" become "COST of controller"

watch date in my first post in this thread.... and check prices of "other??" cheap cnc winder controller on the market:
do you want that this controller costs for - the time that i spend - for features it have - and for ease to find another controller for cnc winder on the market???

for the last time about metric leadscrew:
who don't want search a metric leadscrew can buy another controller...

ciao

Ciao Elepro!

I guess what Brad's have in mind 'bout this project is to make it turn from a "between friends" thing to a "commercial" thing, which's NOT so far out, I think. That could benefit everybody, specially you, considering you're the one providing the code and burning the PIC.

Of course, a project like this wouldn't fly in Italy, but just considering the amount of "hobby" winders in the USA, making a commercial product could be more than feasable (doable?). If marketed with just some success, then you can think Europe, then the whole world!

If I didn't live 1600Km from you, I'll be over your house everyday!

[RedHouse]

...but if i forcedly must add a complicated programming feature (inch pitch leadscrew) only for "friends" who don't want make a effort to search a metric leadscrew,...

No one is forcing you to do anything Elepro, these are requests only.

You built your winder and made best-guesses on how something is best accomplished, fair enough. When you come here and offer it up for public consumption you really must expect those who actually use winders to ask you to make it work better.

....a complicated programming feature (inch pitch leadscrew) only for "friends"....for the last time about metric leadscrew:
who don't want search a metric leadscrew can buy another controller...

I did, and I have some 6mm x 1mm screws and rod here on my bench, that has nothing to do with what I was suggesting or friendship.

You asked me to build this test unit and as I am doing so I'm finding things that should be addressed to change it from just another CNC winder that is difficult source parts for ...into a great CNC Winder that folks here might jump on board for.

Programming to a spec is the best practice, but I understand your view and won't suggest modifications.

[RedHouse]

Ciao Elepro!

I guess what Brad's have in mind 'bout this project is to make it turn from a "between friends" thing to a "commercial" thing, which's NOT so far out, I think. That could benefit everybody, specially you, considering you're the one providing the code and burning the PIC.

Of course, a project like this wouldn't fly in Italy, but just considering the amount of "hobby" winders in the USA, making a commercial product could be more than feasable (doable?). If marketed with just some success, then you can think Europe, then the whole world!

If I didn't live 1600Km from you, I'll be over your house everyday!

I actually have not been thinking that Lt.

I was thinking that making it more appealing to people might make it fly. As it stands it works but relies on much out-board peripheral and fairly expensive equipment with much custom mechanical construction.

It seems like it might be an up-hill battle to get the project off the ground but if a few things that are under our control were made easier to deal with, well more folks here might get interested.

We're at a place where some things should be handled differently to make it more inviting to people here, and having attitude.

Think about it for a minute, most of those here who wind pickups wind by hand, most like it better that way, a few would like a CNC Winder but will have to lay out much cash and will need/expect construction problems to be worked out before the get on board.

I don't "need" a CNC Winder, I agreed to build a test unit because Elepro asked me to in one of our gauss meter communications. I have other things I could be doing (like hand winding pickups) if we're going to get funky about things.

[David Schwab]

I mean think about it for a minute, most of those here who wind pickups wind by hand, most like it better that way, a few would like a CNC Winder but will have to lay out much cash and will need/expect construction problems to be worked out before the get on board.

I wind by hand, and pretty dislike winding by hand. I see no advantage in it. I don't need a CNC winder, I do fine without one, but I want one.

I think a lot of people wind by hand because that's the easiest way to get a winder going. If you look at hobby winders, many are using a hand drill or sewing machine motor and some simple counter. Programable winders are too expensive most people, or too tricky to DIY. Several people here have real commercial coil winders. However I know Spence likes hand winding, and I'm sure others do also. To me it's like using a bit and brace and a chisel instead of a router and template. I like the speed and repeatability of power tools.

I would think that if people had a CNC winder available for a good price, many would go that route. You can see all the DIY CNC winder videos on YouTube, so there seems to be an interest in them!

I'm just waiting for you and David K. to find some good parts to mate up with Elepros controller, and then I'm in!

I had been planning on building some kind of machine winder soon, but this is better. I'd lie to see a kit for the brain, and a list of parts that are needed to build the winder. Obviously this is a project that requires more effort than the gauss meter, as far as assembling a winder based on these parts.

But I was expecting that.

[peskywinnets]

Having just built my own CNC winder, some (IMHO)!) comments....

I'd be surprised if there were much of a market for Elepro's output *if* the end user still has to go on a sourcing spree. Start packaging his code up with a 'standard issue' drivers, steppers, pulleys, leadscrews & there may be a few takers. Now I realise that's what you're trying to do...but witness the metric vs imperial leadscew preferences coming to the fore.As a European, I wouldn't entertain a leadscrew based on base32(!), but I understand those that do...but therein lies the problem standardisation!

At first, I thought I needed all singing & dancing code/user winder interface ....indeed I spent a fair bit of time debugging a specialist coil winder screenset (that was half finished - still is.....downloadable from Artsoft's website). Once I debugged it, I realised that whilst it looked really pretty, it wasn't flexible enough for my needs (for example, I wanted the CNC winder to stop at each winding layer,, so I could apply epoxy...before continuing to wind the next layer etc)....so I spent an hour learning G-Code (very simple - even for a non-programmer)....& now all I need is a simple Excel Spreadsheet to takesmy input ....& it then outputs the correct G-Code....which I simply load up into Mach3 (for those that don't know, ultimately all CNC machines use something called G-Code). What I'm trying to say here is, G-Code really is very simple *especially* for a two axis pickup winder! If you take away the pretty front end & cut to the chase....a the G-Code for winding a pickup only needs a few lines of code, which will typically be used time & time again by the end user.

Example Pickup Winding G-Code (assuming X is the traverse & Y is the winding Motor)...

g00 X0.00 ....take the traverse motor rapidly to the start position coord in this case X0 - but could be any point you choose

G01 X15 Y80 F100 ....traverse the wire 15mm ..& while traversing wind 80 revolutions at 100RPMs

G01 X X0 Y80 F100 ....traverse back to the start position ..& while traversing back wind a further 80 revolutions at 100RPMs


& continue ad infinitum (until your wind count condition is met) - erhm, that's it! All the rest is just fluff!


Now I realise there'll always be those who want it all packaged/sorted in h/w & GUI (to save them the bother/legwork), but once you've bought a driver, two steppers, a PSU - & then downloaded the free version of Mach3 ....a CNC winder is fairly simple beast ....80% of the work is construction. (unlike a gaussmeter, where 80% of the work is the coding!)

[David King]

Here is what I've spent so far on this winder in case anybody is still sitting on the fence:
2 stepper motors (228oz/in and 80 oz/in) with shipping $32
2 very swanky stepper drives +sh $50
1 power transformer $15
That's a total of $95 and all these parts are available in quantity right now via links I posted. The prices are cheap enough that you could sell off any of this stuff easily if you changed your mind.

With this little pile of stuff I could build a totally independent winder that doesn't rely on any controller but just uses some switches and pots and a timer to do a completely automated albeit adjustable, single pitch wind.

I could also build a CNC winder that was controlled via a PC running Mach2 or Mach3 and easily programmed by anyone with modest interest in computers.
( I could also build a small 2 axis cnc router or convert a small lathe or mill to cnc).

Now add to this Elepro's controller and I have a stand-alone programable winder. From what I understand, Elepro's controller will cost on the order of $160 US. For some perspective, that's about what a single user copy of Mach3 costs.

(BTW, the only change I would make to Elepro's design is to add a memory array so that I could store several sets of pickup parameters and not have to plug in parameters for each coil I wind, every time I turn the winder on. I hope that will be an option on a future revision.)

Once Elepro, Brad and I have had a chance to build and test our respective designs we can hopefully mix and match the mechanical elements to come up with the simplest and easiest-to-build design that's known to work. If there's interest in a mechanical kit I think there are enough folks with capability around here who might be willing to make small runs of custom parts that will save folks some time. I would do this for fun, not for profit.

I can see building 2 or 3 versions of this winder for myself and selling off the earlier incarnations on ebay while I refine my design and miniaturize it over time.

In the meanwhile, if you are serious about this project I wouldn't hesitate to buy the drivers we've linked to while they are still available. I don't think you'll find better ones much cheaper unless you are willing to wait and watch ebay for months -assuming you'll know exactly what to get.

[David King]

Regarding the metric vs SAE thread pitch on the traverse screw. I don't think it's much of an issue, 13tpi and 12.7(2mm)tpi are close enough. What it means is when the display says 40 turns per layer, you will actually be getting 41.4 turns per layer. Do you think you can hear that difference in your pickups? If so I would urge you to go and buy the $4000 winder as you will never be happy with a DIY solution.

[peskywinnets]

I could also build a CNC winder that was controlled via a PC running Mach2 or Mach3 and easily programmed by anyone with modest interest in computers.
( I could also build a small 2 axis cnc router or convert a small lathe or mill to cnc).

Now add to this Elepro's controller and I have a stand-alone programable winder. From what I understand, Elepro's controller will cost on the order of $160 US. For some perspective, that's about what a single user copy of Mach3 costs.

Just for the sake of balance - Mach3 is free if your G-Code is expected to be less than 500 lines. IMHO that's actually a lot of G-Code lines - I'd imagine a typical pickup winder G-Code file, might have 200-300 lines in it - & that's just more or less the same lines repeated over & over. (my coil winder G-Code files are typically about 20 lines long!)

I'm not trying to be provocactive - the point I was simply trying to get across is that just about all the heartache with CNC coil/pickups winders is in the sourcing/construction. The actual G-Code needed to drive the thing could be learnt by an average 13 year old in an hour or two. (sure, there'd be no sexy menu structure asking for input - but do you even really need one if you typically wind the same types of pickups over & over?). I'm not a programmer ...& I cracked it in about that time. With G-Code, there's no heavy/obtuse command line structure to learn - just a simple coordinate system.

Anyway, horses for courses... but I'd have saved myself a lot of heartache if I hadn't chased sexy CNC GUI/Menu based systems ...like most things often the simplest methods are the quickest - and like I say, I'm now using an excel spreadsheet to create G-Code, as opposed to a screen like this (which is lovely Eye Candy, & ultimately produces G-Code - but just not as flexible)....



Two Steppers, a driver, a PSU (& some bits & bobs to construct) ...plus the free version of Mach3 - after an hour or two getting to grips with G-Code, you're pretty much good to go.

[David King]

Pesky,
Thanks for that info, I didn't know a shareware version of Mach3 was out there now. That's very useful to know for testing purposes. I don't actually own a PC so I'm still very attached to a stand-alone solution for the winder.

I just contacted Tim Wender, the guy selling off the Dragon drivers and motors I got for this project.
He has the following quantities left:
16 Nema 34 motors (3/8" shaft) @$12
18 Nema 23 motors (1/4" shaft) @$12
45+ drivers @$22
20+ 3/8" couplings ($6.00/pc) I don't think we'd need these for the winder but they're great for other cnc stuff.

I'm getting a few more motors and drivers for myself for future projects.
I was able get both these motors to run at 1000 rpm so no need for pulleys and belts.
I can pass on his contact info along to anyone who wants it.
I could do a bulk buy but it doesn't make any sense re-shipping the crap and I don't think he's going to come down on the prices anyway.
He has the drivers listed on Ebay but I know he'd rather sell them directly and save the ebay/paypal fees.

[-Elepro-]

ok, controller now supports 1mm 2mm 4mm 20tpi 10tpi and 5tpi leadscrews....

[RedHouse]

....From what I understand, Elepro's controller will cost on the order of $160 US.....

Where did $160 come from, did I miss a post or something?

...I'm just waiting for you and David K. to find some good parts to mate up with Elepros controller, and then I'm in!....

Well no need to wait, I already posted that Elepro's controller works as described after correcting my miswired driver.

I've done what I agreed to do for Elepro, he sent me some free chips and I built and tested his unit.

Just to give a heads-up and so there are no apparent hard feelings this has nothing to do with the lead-screw dialog of late, in our private communications off-line we aren't seeing eye-to-eye, it's time for me to step aside. Elepro said he can organise group-buys periodically.

This will of course mean I'm not further involved in this project, and not volunteering to host a group-buy for this CNC Winder project.

I'd like to thank Elepro for doing us all a good thing with the gauss meter and hope that everyone that is interested in this CNC project is able to get it together and working.

[-Elepro-]

Where did $160 come from, did I miss a post or something?

really i don't know.... i say him that in a future group buy 100 euro could be price for the 3 PICs.... but waiting for his reply...

Well no need to wait, I already posted that Elepro's controller works as described after correcting my miswired driver.

I've done what I agreed to do for Elepro, he sent me some free chips and I built and tested his unit.

these are my words emailed to you...

> i need a person who build a complete and well-turned winder prototype for test and for tell in the forum with photo and descriptions

i don't see any winder ... but it's not a problem ..... i want to thank you for all your help and care in the gaussmeter group-buy

ciao