Sprague Orange Drop Caps

[Lyrebird Steve]

Hi all,

I'm looking around for different types of capacitors to test by listening to them and the Sprague Orange drop caps seem to come up in a lot of threads.

I'm curious as to why there is such price differential on the Sprague 715P Orange Drop caps between suppliers ?

Also, I've noticed that some being sold as Sprague Orange Drop caps have "Sprague" printed on them ... and some don't ?

A heads up on what to look for would be great

thanks
Steve

[Jazz P Bass]

I would think that the caps that are not marked "Spraque", are either knockoffs or seconds.
As to price differential, it depends on the value & on the voltage rating.
Basically they are 1 dollar caps.
Then there are sellers that expect to get 2.50 a pop for them. (and probably do)

[minime]

As far as I recall, Sprauge hasn't made Orange Drops for quite awhile. They sold that stuff off a long time ago. However, an Orange Drop is still an Orange Drop, be it a 715 or a 716! Cost irregularities are based on quantities purchased and dealer markup.

[minime]

P.S. I believe Sprauge sold the manufacturing to SBE and that current production is virtually identical. Wow! Stew-Mac's got 'em now for only $2.79! That's got to be at least a 10X markup!

[kayakerca]

P.S. I believe Sprauge sold the manufacturing to SBE and that current production is virtually identical. Wow! Stew-Mac's got 'em now for only $2.79! That's got to be at least a 10X markup!

OK, I'll see your $2.79 and raise you. . .

AllParts @ full retail. . .

"Sprague "Orange Drop" capacitors #715, .047 mfd 600 volt. Pack of 3.
Retail Price: $18.00"

[g1]

72 piece assortment for under $1 each. Quick & lazy way to get an assortment. Capacitor Kit, 600 V Polyester, 600 V Polypropylene, 72 pieces | Antique Electronic Supply

[Mike Sulzer]

Some capacitors called orange drop are polyester, some are polypropyene. These are two common types of metal film capacitors. Most metal film caps are not orange, and the color makes no difference. This is much ado about nothing. Nobody hears much difference, it any, between caps in a double blind test. In a guitar with the tone control on ten, there is a 500K or 250K resistor in series and the combination is across the pickup. Even if the capacitor did sound different, the resistor in series drops nearly all the voltage and the difference would be swamped. If one capacitor under such conditions in a guitar could make a significant difference, then the differences would be huge in an amplifier where there are many capacitors and they are used at a higher voltage. In particular, caps in the amplifier tone circuit, where the cap linearity is important in some settings, would be very large. So this emphasis on the single cap in guitar tone circuit is just ridiculous.

Hi all,

I'm looking around for different types of capacitors to test by listening to them and the Sprague Orange drop caps seem to come up in a lot of threads.

I'm curious as to why there is such price differential on the Sprague 715P Orange Drop caps between suppliers ?

Also, I've noticed that some being sold as Sprague Orange Drop caps have "Sprague" printed on them ... and some don't ?

A heads up on what to look for would be great

thanks
Steve

[Lyrebird Steve]

Nobody hears much difference, it any, between caps in a double blind test.

Mike, I tend to agree (in general) with this statement.

However if people can hear differences (doesn't matter how small), then there is going to be a preference.

I'm pretty sure I hear differences when the caps are dialled up in this video. Not sure I could pick out which is which, but when I shut my eyes I have a "preferred" sound
Guitar Tone Capacitors, part 1: Evaluating Material Types - YouTube

Anyhow, it got me thinking that I also should build a test rig to be able to "swap" caps and pots in and out of the circuit without having to rewire the pick guard every time I want to test or change something.

[big_teee]

Mike, I tend to agree (in general) with this statement.

However if people can hear differences (doesn't matter how small), then there is going to be a preference.

I'm pretty sure I hear differences when the caps are dialled up in this video. Not sure I could pick out which is which, but when I shut my eyes I have a "preferred" sound
Guitar Tone Capacitors, part 1: Evaluating Material Types - YouTube

Anyhow, it got me thinking that I also should build a test rig to be able to "swap" caps and pots in and out of the circuit without having to rewire the pick guard every time I want to test or change something.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22980[/ATTACH]

Unless you have an accurate way to measure Cap Value, then the difference you may be hearing is a change in Cap size or value?
So you would have to determine the exact same value for two caps, then if you hear a difference, it would be the cap itself.
As a whole I never hear much difference in Caps of same value!
T

[Joe L]

And that is really the only way to do it. I have done research on different caps in amp building and the only way you can really compare the tone differences is to do it live, on your equipment with a switch to instantly A/B the devices you are comparing.

I can hear the difference between a closely matched in value ceramic and mica capacitors in the tone section of a Black Face Fender. There is a slight gritty texture with the ceramic and the mica is smooth. And that is with a very clean setting in a quiet room. Changing out a two gig old set of strings makes a lot more difference.

[Joe Gwinn]

And that is really the only way to do it. I have done research on different caps in amp building and the only way you can really compare the tone differences is to do it live, on your equipment with a switch to instantly A/B the devices you are comparing.

I can hear the difference between a closely matched in value ceramic and mica capacitors in the tone section of a Black Face Fender. There is a slight gritty texture with the ceramic and the mica is smooth. And that is with a very clean setting in a quiet room. Changing out a two gig old set of strings makes a lot more difference.

To be valid, the player and audience cannot know which is which, and the identity of A and B are changed once or twice on a random schedule. This breaks up any expectation bias effects if done correctly.

[David Schwab]

However if people can hear differences (doesn't matter how small), then there is going to be a preference.

I'm sorry, but people think they hear a difference. If you look at the various YouTube videos comparing caps, it's not a blind test, double or otherwise. They show which cap they are using. Don't look at the screen and you won't tell the difference.

Also we don't know how the test was done, as far as the amount of extra wire that might have been used, and in most cases the caps were not measured.

Orange drops are a fad, as are paper in oil, etc. The wild claims you hear, such as that the cap made the guitar less muddy, all while having the control on 10, is just ridiculous.

Any film cap will do just fine, as will most ceramic caps.

[Lyrebird Steve]

the difference you may be hearing is a change in Cap size or value

This is exactly what I'm thinking. With the tollerences of even +/- 5% it would make a difference, which is more likely to explain the differences than the construction.

It has been mentioned in a few spots that the different materials in the capacitors don't all let through the exact same frequencies ... the implication is that some let through some mids with the highs and thus get a different tone.

Is this (electrically) possible ?

[bob p]

Sooner or later everyone with the itch to tinker gets around to building a decade box for resistors and caps. It's part of the natural geek-tweeker's progression.

I have to laugh when I hear people swear by how much better/worse particular brands of caps make things sound. 10 years ago it was popular to say, "Never use Orange Drops in a Marshall circuit -- they'll make it sound harsh." I haven't been paying attention -- has the internet lore about ODs changed since then?

I like to buy inexpensive metallized caps for tinkering and save the higher cost metallized caps for finalized construction. Whether or not I use an axial cap or a radial cap primarily depends on where I need it to fit. As far as radials go, I really like ODs but I'll use el-cheapo Xicon caps, and as far as axial caps go, I like M150 and Illinois about the same. I honestly don't think that the generic yellow metallized caps from CEDist are any lesser. But their tolerances are very different, and that's worth paying for. I don't buy the boutique caps.

In the big scheme of things, I think it's more important to choose your caps based upon verified capacitance value, rather than choosing them by brand. My ESR meter has taught me that caps with identical specs are pretty darned hard/impossible to tell apart. Maybe SilverMica vs. Ceramic is an exception. Maybe. But telling metallized caps apart by how they sound? My ears are no better at telling them apart than is my ESR meter.

If you're inclined to do comparisons, my recommendation would be to record all of your results after controlling significant variables using an ESR meter. If you don't have an ESR meter, I think it's money well spent to buy caps that have 5% tolerance instead of 10% or 20%. The actual capacitance value matters. A lot.

[Rhodesplyr]

Sprague, which is now a brand name owned by Vishay, sold off the film capacitor manufacturing business a long time ago, and the facility, in Vermont, was renamed SBE. What's odd is that you can find some 715P caps sold on sites like Mouser under the Vishay brand. Then, last October, SBE was acquired by Cornell Dubilier. Confused yet?

http://www.cde.com/press-room/orange...lectronics.php

I usually buy 716P series caps from CE Distribution. In this last year, I saw my first failed 715P cap in a Leslie amp, and the cap was 2011 production.