Is it just highe end? (cable differnces)

[potatofarmer]

wow can you imagine how much better Hendrix, Page, et al COULD'VE sound if they only had access to ULTRA LOW CAPACITANCE CABLE!!!!!!!!!

(JUST KIDDING NOW!)

(the C is just basically about affect on the pickup's resonance peak, maybe moving it higher (plus more amplitude) where the human ear tends to be more sensitive and therefore "sounds better", or is there more to it than that?)

As long as we're bringing up Hendrix, the late Bill Lawrence had this to say on the matter:

2. High-capacitance cables shift the resonance towards the lower frequencies which dramatically alters tone. For example, Jimi Hendrix used a coiled cord with 3,000 picofarads (.003 microfarads), shifting the resonance below 2,000 Hertz on his Strats. This was the secret of Jimi's tone. Shifting the resonance frequency at 2,000 Hertz has a similar effect to a midrange boost. However, when he recorded and needed a typical Strat sound for some tracks, Jimi switched to a short, low-capacitance cable.

http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/Connector_Cable.htm

[Tom Phillips]

Jimi's curly cord.

I am particularly fond of this photo because I was at that concert.

[tedmich]

Jimi's curly cord.

I am particularly fond of this photo because I was at that concert.

here's a bigger pic, circle yourself Tom! Supposedly the entire front row was all East Bakersfield HS students...(see http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.co...i-came-to-town
Were there two shows, another on the 27th?


Michael Ochs Archive Image via NME

[Leo_Gnardo]

Jimi's curly cord.

Good comments on the resonance mid-peaking response brought about by hi capacitance cable, especially coily cords.

Now what about that wah pedal, the first thing JImi's guitar is plugged into? Unless there's a true bypass switch wired in, the guitar signal is loaded down by about 150K ohms at the pedal input. Stock wah pedals had SPDT bypass switches, and guitar signal traveled both to the wah circuit board and switch. Another tone-changer, there goes all your hi frequencies. One of my fave pet peeves with stock wahs, and a reason I always keep plenty of DPDT switches in stock.

[Tom Phillips]

Thanks for the improved photo.
I only remember there being one show. It was great.
I was about a third of the way back.

[dai h.]

As long as we're bringing up Hendrix, the late Bill Lawrence had this to say on the matter:As long as we're bringing up Hendrix, the late Bill Lawrence had this to say on the matter:

2. High-capacitance cables shift the resonance towards the lower frequencies which dramatically alters tone. For example, Jimi Hendrix used a coiled cord with 3,000 picofarads (.003 microfarads), shifting the resonance below 2,000 Hertz on his Strats. This was the secret of Jimi's tone. Shifting the resonance frequency at 2,000 Hertz has a similar effect to a midrange boost. However, when he recorded and needed a typical Strat sound for some tracks, Jimi switched to a short, low-capacitance cable.

Bill Lawrence Website

I remember that. (IIRC) BL seemed be a proponent of low C cable in order to be able to add in C (also not one to fixate on "special tone caps" as well as I remember reading) with the tone control to exploit the resonance shift (more better for distorted tones and vice a versa for cleans) and not one of simply using a low C cord period and that being the ideal fixed scenario.

Good comments on the resonance mid-peaking response brought about by hi capacitance cable, especially coily cords.

Now what about that wah pedal, the first thing JImi's guitar is plugged into? Unless there's a true bypass switch wired in, the guitar signal is loaded down by about 150K ohms at the pedal input. Stock wah pedals had SPDT bypass switches, and guitar signal traveled both to the wah circuit board and switch. Another tone-changer, there goes all your hi frequencies. One of my fave pet peeves with stock wahs, and a reason I always keep plenty of DPDT switches in stock.

this (loading from presumably non-true bypassed wah) too (which I would think has an effect on the PU damping). On stage (presuming the heard recorded sound is reasonably true to the original), Jimi seemed to be capable of good sound even if he wasn't using the studio setup of low C cord (exclusively?).

[Alex R]

oh what the fricklefrack have I started

curly lead tone

sheesh

but ok, that many picos to ground is gonna do something all right. However most every small tonal effect I've come across simply disappears when you turn a simple amplifier up to 11. And something else appears, something that holds curly lead tone in deep disdain. Something GODLIKE lol.

So do we think dear old Wilco Johnson's curly lead added tone which his utterly tubeless H//H completely removed? Or what?

This might help you decide. His lead's still curly but his hair's not lol

https://youtu.be/wMlhWvIh7U4

[Leo_Gnardo]

oh what the fricklefrack have I started

curly lead tone

sheesh

I like the subtle phasor-flangey effect resulting from the kurly-kable's capacitance varying as it stretches & contracts while the performer is jumping around on stage. Turn up to twelve for the god-like experience. Don't matter at that point if your amp is solid-snake or tubes or both.

[km6xz]

It is a bit of myth surely. The main hf peaking resonate frequency is determined by the larger ractive values of the capacitor, inductance and pot which isolates the secondary higher frequency resonate frequency that is mostly impacted by amp input Z and cable capacitance.
Plot it out yourself it is easy to see with a spectrum analyzer. The secondary peak is lower down the low pass slope of the primary resonate circuit. If it wasn't every time you moved the cable you would hear very loud artifacts. You only do now when a cable is very microphonic where the shield and dielectric material become loose.
Test it yourself, measure it and calculate the series tuned circuits, with one being down the slope by 6-18 db. As I wrote in an early post, unless there is something wrong, cable capacitance makes only a minor and rather high frequency different in the spectrum since its peak is above what the cabinet is efficient over, and the low amplitude of the upper harmonics on the hp pass side of the primary resonate circuit. The Q of that circuit will determine how far down it is but it can be quite sharp for a 2 pole filter. So the upper harmonic content is attenuated below the unfiltered output of the pickup and that is what the secondary lower Q resonate circuit is working on not the whole flat original pickup signal. The peak could be a few db, easily measured but since it is below far down the slope, it is a pretty weak amplitude where it peaks at 10-14 khz.
All this fretting over the presence of 10khz harmonic 40 db down makes me cringe, what better waste of time and practice time! I guess the OP thinks his acceptance of the audience is based on some trivial aspect that is dwarfed by important things like style, skill and sense of musicality. These types of discussions NEVER happen in a recording session by top players...I never heard of such trivia being an excuse for bad tone before getting out into the amateur music world. I would bet a month's salary that 180 pfd versus 280 pfd is NOT the reason we have never heard the OP's music on major albums or songs other musicians are inspired to copy.

[tedmich]

Alessandro makes their Instrument Pro cables ($2K/20ft) with Audioquest wire, their "tech" is described here in 20 concise pages...
http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf

its described as "Double-balanced, solid functionally-perfect silver conductor" so its probably a little stiff...

The Amazon reviews of the AudioQuest NRG WEL Signature Series 6 Feet AC Power Cable ($7k) are some of the funniest I've ever read...
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-NRG.../dp/B0055OM9WS

[dai h.]

aaaaahhh man... LOL

as far as the cable C and PU resonance, this is one of the articles I remember reading (only exists currently at internet archive/wayback machine without the graphic figures, unfortunately) :

PSPICE Modeling of Guitar Circuits with Effects of the Instrument Cable

edit: some of the diagrams from the above article have apparently been appropriated for this one (the Telecaster diagram and the three after(below) showing resonant peak):

What is the theory behind how the settings on an electric guitar and amplifier affect the sound? - Quora

[eschertron]

Alessandro makes their Instrument Pro cables ($2K/20ft) with Audioquest wire, their "tech" is described here in 20 concise pages...
http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf

its described as "Double-balanced, solid functionally-perfect silver conductor" so its probably a little stiff...

The Amazon reviews of the AudioQuest NRG WEL Signature Series 6 Feet AC Power Cable ($7k) are some of the funniest I've ever read...
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-NRG.../dp/B0055OM9WS

Free shipping makes it a deal, though, surely?

...and yes, the reviews are a hoot!

[The Dude]

My $.02

Talking guitar cables: Since most guitar DI interfaces roll off hard at around 5K and guitar amps don't even have tweeters, a cable would have to have a ridiculous amount of capacitance for anyone to notice a loss of high frequency. Microphone cables- a different story, but studies I've read regarding cable capacitance and loss don't get anywhere near 5k. More important concerns, as already stated, are durability and cable noise.

[Leo_Gnardo]

My $.02

Talking guitar cables: Since most guitar DI interfaces roll off hard at around 5K and guitar amps don't even have tweeters, a cable would have to have a ridiculous amount of capacitance for anyone to notice a loss of high frequency. Microphone cables- a different story, but studies I've read regarding cable capacitance and loss don't get anywhere near 5k. More important concerns, as already stated, are durability and cable noise.

Try the listening test: nice clean amp, speakers that have a crisp hi end, guitar to match (single coil pu's), then a short & long cable. Say 5 foot and 20 foot. Unless you're deef as keef you'll hear a difference. Whether it's worth $2000 for a booteek cable to preserve that little snippet of hi end response, well no it's not. As Stan said, this is not what makes or breaks recordings. And as I say, same for live shows. OTOH if you have a customer who says he can't hear any hi frequencies, and he's using 100 feet of cable between his guitar and amp, there's an opportunity to make a positive difference with shorter cables. I once had a customer who didn't agree, that's why he quickly became an ex-customer now 20 years older and 20 years deaf-er, still not happy.

Low impedance in mic lines tends to defeat the effects of long cables. 100m = 330ft snakes used for concerts, plenty of sizzle as long as the splitter passes enough bandwidth. (For those who aren't acquainted with the term: Splitter is what sends mic signal to FOH console and monitor console and recording/broadcast console. Hi quality transformers definitely help. Cheap Charlie splitters which simply splice extra lines on with or without resistors invite loss of bandwidth as well as hum/buzz, ask me how I know.)

Meanwhile at the other end of the amp, the power cable, just yesterday one of my crustomers told me about some salesman's yap about how he can't get all he should out of his amp without a $250 power cable. It was big as a garden hose with bulky connectors. Such tripe! Everybody knows those cables are rubbish! You need a $2500 AC cable, fat as a fire hose. Everybody's doing it now.

[The Dude]

Try the listening test: nice clean amp, speakers that have a crisp hi end, guitar to match (single coil pu's), then a short & long cable. Say 5 foot and 20 foot. Unless you're deef as keef you'll hear a difference......

Yes, I should have stipulated something like "typical electric guitar sound". You're describing an atypical tone with content likely well over 5Khz. Of course, the more high frequency in your sound, the more you will notice crappy cables. So I'll also stipulate that my statement does not include acoustic guitar.