General Question about European power and polarity

[Gtr0]

Hi Everyone.
I have a more generalized question here, but for good reason. I recently purchased a Black Lion Audio PG-2 (F Type) power conditioner for my in-home studio gear. About 10 years ago I had an electrician come in and install 2 dedicated mains for my attic and everything has been fine. But after purchasing this new power conditioner, it has a red led on, "wiring fault" - the manual says that "live" and "neutral" are reversed and to contact an electrician.

I then contacted the same electrician and he said that it makes no difference as to which side carries the live or the neutral. Sorry I am probably butchering what he said, but he speaks French and I speak English. And we go back in forth with a combination of broken forms of both languages.

I did what research I can but it's tough to know who to trust, which is why I ask you. Nobody here has steered me wrong before :-)

So I am only worried as I am plugging in 4000€ preamps and vintage guitar amps etc etc. Here is a link to the product, BLA PG-2 and a link to the user manual here - but there is really no info in there other than what the led is for which states...

Wiring Fault: This indicates the LINE and NEUTRAL wires in the source are reversed. Unplug the unit immediately and consult an electrician to fix the fault.

The led itself is not on very brightly. And of course I can't help but wonder why they would include the feature if the polarity does not matter, but maybe it does in some countries like the US?

Anyway, if you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them! Thanks!!!

[Chuck H]

In most cases reversing line and neutral won't make a difference. But in some cases it can be dangerous creating a shock hazard. Fusing can be compromised. GFI circuits won't work correctly. There's often more noise on the line than the neutral as well when that can matter. I've been shocked a couple of times removing fixtures on two way circuits that were wired inverse. Frenchy needs to fix the fault because it absolutely CAN be a problem. The notion that it makes NO difference is dangerous and simple minded. In fact I might not have Frenchy do the work. He can't be trusted to know what's right and wrong.

[Helmholtz]

How does your mains plug look?
If your country uses the Schuko plug like Germany (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko) reversing the plug will reverse line and neutral.

[Pixel]

The PG-2 has detected something it is not happy about so ask the manufacturer or distributor about it. Apparently in Belgium and France live and neutral are not taken into account when wiring sockets. It may be useful to post pictures of the actual plug and socket you have installed. Have you tried plugging the device into other sockets?

[x-pro]

About 10 years ago

Better get an electrician in and double-check the quality of the connections. Check the quality of grounding.

In my home, I do an annual inspection of the mains electrical connections. Especially critical connections where there are screw terminals.

[pdf64]

Shuko = type F, unpolarised, so flip the plug 180°.
If that looks untidy, maybe the socket can be rotated 180° fairly easily, no special competence required (other than the basics), perhaps without even needing to disconnect any wires, provided the wires behind the socket are long enough?
https://www.worldstandards.eu/electr...and-sockets/f/

[Pixel]

When you are using vintage equipment then there are a lot of considerations with respect to safety. Protections afforded by modern standards simply do not apply to vintage equipment especially if it was made in another country. On top of that you have had decades worth of "experts" making repairs and modifications to your vintage gear. Have your gear inspected by a technician who you trust with your life.

[Chuck H]

How does your mains plug look?
If your country uses the Schuko plug like Germany (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko) reversing the plug will reverse line and neutral.

Neat. So how do you know which was is "correct" to begin with?

But further, even if reversing the plug swaps the line and nuetral there's no way to be sure both mains sources aren't inverse of each other. Since Frenchy doesn't seem to think it matters why would he pay attention.

EDIT: I looked up the Shuko outlets and I see that there are a couple of types. Most look to have the two ground contacts allowing for plug reversal. Some have an off center ground pin that would prevent this. I'll guess that is a non standard outlet for applications where polarity has to be correct? Hospitals and such?

[Helmholtz]

Please note that the name is Schuko not Shuko.
It's derived fro the german term "Schutz-Kontakt", meaning safety contact.

I've never seen a Schuko plug or outlet having an off-center ground pin.

[Gtr0]

wow, thanks for all of the replies!

It is a form of the Schuko I think - a CEE 7, like this one (French version) - I am in south west (french part) of Belgium. It's different from the German one where the earth tabs are on the side, but here there is a third connector (earth) that sticks out of the socket.

For what it's worth, I have been plugging Neves and all kinds of expensive gear up there for years - racks of recording gear etc... I would have never known if I didn't have to buy another conditioner because the switch went bad on my current one... which I figured I'd replace and have a second one for when I need it.

Anyway, the plug having this ground tab sticking out does make me assume that polarity IS an issue. And the only reason I am asking is that I have had tons of gear powered up there daily for 10 years.

I'll attach a few images here... one of a plug in my kitchen.

[Helmholtz]

Function and safety of products intended for the German market must not depend on plug orientation.
So there's not "incorrect polarity".
Might be different in Belgium or France.

[Pixel]

What does the plug look like on the Black Lion gear? Your socket has a ground pin sticking out of it. Does the plug on the Black Lion Audio PG-2 have a hole for this ground pin?

[Gtr0]

The plugs on the back are the same as the front - German "side tabs" style. But the hardwired cable to supply power to the unit is correct, it has the "earth hole" on it (pictured is the actual plug from the unit)

Generally our stuff here is interchangeable with German style cables.... many of the multi-socket strips you get here are German style with just the grounding tabs.

I would put a lot of faith in saying that the general power requirements are the same here as in Germany. I travel back and forth between Germany a few times a year (touring) and my amps work the same there as they do in my attic.

Some more pics attached... the plug at the end of the cable from the actual unit and the unit's German style sockets in the back.

[Tom Phillips]

...About 10 years ago I had an electrician come in and install 2 dedicated mains for my attic and everything has been fine. But after purchasing this new power conditioner, it has a red led on, "wiring fault" - the manual says that "live" and "neutral" are reversed and to contact an electrician.
I then contacted the same electrician and he said that it makes no difference as to which side carries the live or the neutral...

Hi Eric,
I say that your "electrician" is wrong. (I put electrician in quotes because I suspect that person is, in reality, a handyman who works as a jack of all trades.
The link below shows a page titled " Differences in USA and European AC Panels" that clearly explains that there is a difference between the hot and neutral lines used in a European, 230V line power system. Of particular note is that the branch circuit breakers are single-pole installed only in the hot line.

As the warning light on your new power conditioner has alerted you, there is a wiring mistake in your house wiring. Based on my experience, I'm not all that surprised. I have found many such mistakes in equipment and building wiring. Unfortunately, many of the mistakes go unnoticed because, although the wiring does not conform to safety standards, it appears to work properly to most people.

https://www.bluesea.com/support/arti...pean_AC_Panels I have also attached a screen shop of the relevant information in case the link goes dead in the future.


HTH,
Tom

[Helmholtz]

Of course there's a difference between line (hot phase) and neutral in the installation/house wiring.
But if the equipment has a reversible plug the orientation must not matter to the equipment.
Any electrician should have a phase detector (screwdriver with built-in neon).