help me understand why my bandmate's amp is louder than mine

[J M Fahey]

To leave pot curves aside, compare both amps side by side, no pedals, with everything on "10".
That way, only variables left are difference in raw power output, (You have 32 clean watts, he can't have *much* more than that, tops around 50W) and difference in speaker efficiency and response curve. I guess there's where the main difference lies.
As an example, if you load 2 similar cabinets with Eminences that have the same magnet, but one is a guitar-specific model and the other is a good PA type, say an alpha or beta series type, the guitar one will probably have a 10 dB peak around 2500hZ (where our ear is most sensitive) compared to the other, and will absolutely swamp the other onstage. Compare response curves and you'll see.

[loudthud]

So then...ten 32 watt amps only get you twice the loudness

Not exactly. When you use multiple speakers, there is an apparent gain of 3dB in efficiency each time you double the number of speakers if the power remains the same. So simply adding 3 more speakers (doubling twice) will give a gain of 6dB. Add three more amps to drive the additional speakers and you are at 12dB. Easily twice as loud.

[Jammin'John]

Yes

Right on,Loudthud.
To pick up 3db you can either double the power,64w,or double the speakers.

mlove3
Why would you put up with a rude bandmate ?
Slap him up side the head & tell him to turn down or you'll break something of his !

Get a 4 ohm Neo and open the back of the cab by 1/3.

or

Get an extension cab & run 2x12".

JJ

[mlove3]

EVM 12L...no.

"mlove3
Why would you put up with a rude bandmate ?
Slap him up side the head & tell him to turn down or you'll break something of his "

Well, I've tried. You'd think your average middle aged band guy that's been doing it forever would know better, but...

I bought an EVM 12L, ebay, tried it, hated it immediately. It's loud, yes. Sounds like a PA speaker, other than the low end sounding great the amp sounds completely different, mids and highs are harsh and no singing quality, just all wrong.

So I went back to the celestion G12H 100W. So now two things:

Is there a speaker that has that typical guitar speaker tone but is louder and cleaner and more bass (keeping in mind I disliked the EVM)?

I may (after the next gig, no tme before then) open up the cabinet and make it only half closed back. I bet that'd make it seem louder if nothing else, but I'll lose the low end thunk.

[Jammin'John]

Yes

Weber Ceramic Silver Bell Speaker

Weber Ceramic Blue Dog Speaker


JJ

[mlove3]

weber speaker

I've heard good things. Good price too. So from your experience these are celestion like but louder and/or more bottom end??

[Jammin'John]

Weber

Yes,they are all british flavored.
I mentioned the Silver Bell,which is Marshall flavored because it has big,tight lows.
I run a Blue Dog in my Tweed Deluxe.
A 1230-55 in a Brown Deluxe.
A Blue Dog in a Tweed Pro.
A Blue & a Silver in a Low Power Tweed Twin and in a Tweed Double Deluxe.

I mentioned the ceramic models because they are louder/tighter.


JJ

[J M Fahey]

Agreed, EVMs are PA speakers.
May or may not work for you, that depends on musical taste.
The loudest Dual Showman I ever heard personally was a Silverface , 135W, ultralinear, with 2 EVM15L's.
Unbearable. The owner (David Lebon, an Argentine guitar player) had to hung a carpet or two in front of it, or use the cabinet backwards, pointing to a wall, no kidding.
Yet with a Plexi I liked them, also in a Mesa Mark I or II.
You might like Fanes, very loud, yet *guitar* speakers, of Hiwatt and Orange fame.

[pdf64]

If you like the tone of your G12H 100W, then linking in another one will achieve precisely your goal of being louder (by 3dB = doubling your amp power thru 1 speaker) with more bass, because of the larger effective cone area.
Weber don't publish the sensitivity of their speakers. So if you want one that is more sensitive than your G12H 100W, you will have to specify that as being a requirement and ask what they suggest.
My weber 12A150 is quieter than a greenback (97dB/watt), whereas your G12H 100W will be 99 or 100dB/watt.
Eminence wizard are very loud but have a mid-rangy tone.
So all in all, you'd be best off with another G12H 100W in your rig.
Getting some kind of an opening in the back will get you a tone which (generally) will sit better with the rest of the band, especially as there's already a guitarist running an open back cab.
I also recommend that you try out a speaker directivity modifier to get an all round even tone, minus the on-axis ice-picky beam.
Speaker Directivity Modifier :: TGP Webzine

[guitician]

If you like the tone of your G12H 100W, then linking in another one will achieve precisely your goal of being louder (by 3dB = doubling your amp power thru 1 speaker) with more bass, because of the larger effective cone area.

But, the power will be split between the two speakers, effectively halving the prior output of the single speaker.

[Jammin'John]

Split

Yes the power will split but with 2 speakers moving you will gain 3db.
The only other 2 ways to gain 3 db in the amp are to get a speaker for the amp that is 3db louder or to DOUBLE the power of the amp.

JJ

[guitician]

Yes the power will split but with 2 speakers moving you will gain 3db.
The only other 2 ways to gain 3 db in the amp are to get a speaker for the amp that is 3db louder or to DOUBLE the power of the amp.

JJ

Yeah, I understand the increase in cone area. But how will he keep the power to each speaker the same as before?

[Jammin'John]

No

It won't keep the power the same to each speaker,that's not what happens.
What does happen is that the SPL of the cab with 2 speakers is 3db louder than with the full power into 1 speaker.
I'm not kidding.
Try it.
3db is a small but noticeable difference.
It would take twice the power through the one speaker to get the 3db gain.
It would take 10 times the power through the one speaker to be twice as loud.

JJ

[guitician]

Not exactly. When you use multiple speakers, there is an apparent gain of 3dB in efficiency each time you double the number of speakers if the power remains the same. So simply adding 3 more speakers (doubling twice) will give a gain of 6dB. Add three more amps to drive the additional speakers and you are at 12dB. Easily twice as loud.

Yeah, loudthud, I posted that because when Steve mentioned multiple amps, it reminded me of them walls of amps guitarist used to have behind them on stage.

And it doesn't seem like adding a second speaker to a tube amp can double it's sound output, because of the power distribution.

But, in mlove3's case, if he ran a second G12h/100, he would have the potential to move more air.

[Jammin'John]

3db

"And it doesn't seem like adding a second speaker to a tube amp can double it's sound output, because of the power distribution."

It doesn't double the spl.
It increases by 3db.

JJ