Electrical engineers: is this possible?

[Bad Daddy DeVille]

Okay, this is a little sick: I love that damned Micro Terror so much that I mounted it in an old Art Deco PA speaker cab I had in the attic, then covered the cab in Fender-style tweed. All that's left to do is to install a brown leather handle from eBay when that arrives. Okay, so the stark white of the amp face doesn't even look right. Besides, I never go to jam sessions anymore, so I didn't even need a combo amp. All this amp is for is recording, which is what the speaker jacks are for in the back panel. Still...

[Bad Daddy DeVille]

Whoa! "Human" is a great song! I even liked the sound of the Marshall Class 5 ...it was only in the final seconds that you could hear any fizz. After I heard that one, I clicked on "Musical Chairs" and some glitch happened: I can't hear the SoundCloud file. I went back to "Human" and couldn't hear that, either. I tried a couple of other tunes on the SoundCloud home page and they played, no problem. I'm going to restart my Mac and see if that clears up the mystery.

Brownface Princeton! Great choice, Ron.

[soundguruman]

When I record distorted guitars ---regardless of which amp and/or speaker cabinet I use--- I get a nasty fizzy sound. I can eq it out of the recording, but I'd like to know if there's a way of putting some form of eq between the amp head and the speaker cab. That might also help with a flabby bottom if I could just eq it out before it gets to the speaker.

I know a line-level equalizer wouldn't be appropriate. I think there are some equalizers used in car audio that go between amps and speakers. Also, I assume this might strain the output transformer in a guitar amp. But does anyone know from an engineering standpoint what the reality is here? Or if there's a way to do this safely?

Thanks!

What's happening is that your mic input is being overloaded.
There has to be a pad between the mic and the mixer. Reduce the input gain till the distortion stops. Then increase the post fader gain, for your record level.
You have to start at the mixer input, and trying to EQ the noise (overload distortion) out, is the wrong way to go.

[teemuk]

Kinda ironic that modeling solutions and solid-state amps like Micro Terror get talked down to when according to this thread they aren't the ones introducing that annoying fizz, on the contrary.

Some speakers were even more fizzy than others. Surprisingly, the ElectroVoice 12L Series II was the worst.

Surprisingly? With quite extensive bandwidth towards higher frequencies and a 10 dB peak in response at upper mid frequencies. Seems like a super sensitive speaker to enhance the fizz inherently generated by overdriven amps.

[soundguruman]

Kinda ironic that modeling solutions and solid-state amps like Micro Terror get talked down to when according to this thread they aren't the ones introducing that annoying fizz, on the contrary.






Surprisingly? With quite extensive bandwidth towards higher frequencies and a 10 dB peak in response at upper mid frequencies. Seems like a super sensitive speaker to enhance the fizz inherently generated by overdriven amps.

EV 12L is the most non-fizzy speaker.
If you want to hear fizz, try a Peavey speaker. Those are the most fizzy.
The signal from the mic is overloading the input stage of the mixer.
That's what you are hearing.

There is no recording without first getting a good level into the mixer first. That's square one. You don't have that yet.
Buy a microphone attenuator.

Another cause of FIZZ is just that the amp is not biased clean. Solid state or tube, cold bias = fizz sound.
Almost makes it sound like the speaker is blown.

[Bad Daddy DeVille]

The Micro Terror is a solid state power amp with a 12ax7 tube preamp. I'm sure without that 12ax7 the thing would sound... well, as unacceptable as any solid state amp. I have no idea why this amp sounds so much better than all the all-tube amps I've tried. It's not only counter-intuitive, it seems sacrilegious that that's the case. The fact that this $150 kludge with one tube in it has creamier crunch and distortion than a Vox AC15 is... blasphemous.

[ron vogel]

The overdrive sound is my Tele into a half-cocked wah into the amp dimed. It was what that amp sounded best at...My wah is also modded for higher output...pushes the amp preamp a bit harder.

[soundguruman]

The Micro Terror is a solid state power amp with a 12ax7 tube preamp. I'm sure without that 12ax7 the thing would sound... well, as unacceptable as any solid state amp. I have no idea why this amp sounds so much better than all the all-tube amps I've tried. It's not only counter-intuitive, it seems sacrilegious that that's the case. The fact that this $150 kludge with one tube in it has creamier crunch and distortion than a Vox AC15 is... blasphemous.

Chinese becoming more and more clever.

I think the Tiny Terror and Night Train are the best sounding Chinese amps, and I never expected that they could produce an amp that sounded good.
*(these Chinese amps are obviously designed by the same person, built in the same factory...)

Now if they would just get the noise out...and support it with parts....they might just have something (for a change).

[Bad Daddy DeVille]

The signal from the mic is overloading the input stage of the mixer.
That's what you are hearing.

There is no recording without first getting a good level into the mixer first. That's square one.

There was no mixer involved in the recording. (I haven't used an actual mixing desk in years.) The signal path is speaker ---> mic ---> Onyx Blackjack USB Recording Interface ---> computer. I dialed down the gain control on the interface so that it wasn't clipping digitally.

[ron vogel]

I kind of doubt you were getting distortion from the mic preamp too. I used a Mackie Satellite for several years (what was used on the recordings I posted)...has the same Onyx preamps. When they clip it's ugly...and not just fizzy.

[Bad Daddy DeVille]

I kind of doubt you were getting distortion from the mic preamp too. I used a Mackie Satellite for several years (what was used on the recordings I posted)...has the same Onyx preamps. When they clip it's ugly...and not just fizzy.

Same mic, same settings on the Onyx: Marshall or Vox---FIZZY Cheap Chinese Hybrid Micro Terror---NO FIZZ

Go figure!

[mushy]

Same mic, same settings on the Onyx: Marshall or Vox---FIZZY Cheap Chinese Hybrid Micro Terror---NO FIZZ

Go figure!

What kind of speaker comes in those micros? Have you tried running one of the other amps through it's speaker? I think the micro clip does sound better than the other clips, but

I think there is a general assumption that 'tube' automatically = good, which is obviously not true. I haven't heard many of the smaller tube amps that I like. I like deluxes and tiny terrors, but a lot of the smaller amps sound ugly to me. On the other hand, I haven't heard any solid state amp that I like.

[teemuk]

One of the usual "problems" is that there seem to be general misconceived ideas that any tube amp should sound greater than any solid-state amp and that tube amps should not fizz annoyingly when overdriven. Instead they should always have the perfect ideal tone that the user wants to hear.

Reality is often different.

If you don't like amps that fizz when ovedriven you have a few solutions...

- Use amps that don't do that, or at least do it in less-annoying extent
- Plug your amps to speakers / dummyloads+cabsims that have poor-enough bandwidth to hide the fizz
- Filter the amp output with somekind of a low-pass filter, like shunt series cap+resistor to ground at speaker output, or a similar circuit at the plate(s) of the power tube(s)
- Processing (namely EQ) in either recording or post-processing chain
- Try adjusting the mic position

The fact that this $150 kludge with one tube in it has creamier crunch and distortion than a Vox AC15 is... blasphemous.

Why is that? Personally, AC series Vox amps would be far down in the list of amps I'd consider using if I wanted distortion tone. Maybe for playing 60's music with that either overly "muddy" or overly "bright and thin" tone characteristic to that decade yes, but distortion overall.... no way! It at least needs somekind of a booster or distortion pedal in front or it just sounds like a little broken transistor radio, IMO. There are much better amps out there for that application.

[Chuck H]

Couldn't agree more. There are TONS of great, expressive and intriguing distortion tones out there in recorded media. Some are from stomp boxes and some are from tubes. A bad good sounding or bad sounding design IS what it IS no matter what you build it with

Further... Artists are always experimenting with different sounds to create the effect they want on a recording. Sometimes it's a low pass filter for a fizzy tone and sometimes it's a high pass filter on a not fizzy tone!!! It's possible to listen and decipher some of what's happening. The average listener simply equates good playing with good tone.?. What you gonna do?

[Bad Daddy DeVille]

The Micro Terror is just an amp head. You can get a little 8" cabinet for it from Orange, in keeping with it being a sort of miniature stack. I'm using it strictly for recording, so I'm using 12" speakers. (I couldn't get a ballsy enough sound out of the 10" speakers I tried.) Right now it's going through a ElectroVoice 12L Series II.

Early in my amp buying spree I got a Vox AC4C1 that's actually really a great sounding small amp. I just couldn't get a big enough sound out of it for recording, but it's great for just playing at home at comfortable volumes.