Choosing transformers: is mercury magnetics a snake oil scheme?

[Steelwitch]

I know the quality of transformers is very important... but what makes MM better than say.. classictone? I don’t have the two to make a direct comparison, and it probably depends on transformer specs, but in regards to what I’m putting in my amp, what would make MM better than classictone for the sale value? Brand name and reputation alone? Has anyone observed a significant increase in quality with either one? They both seem good, but classictone is so much cheaper, and I’m having a hard time justifying the almost $400 it will require from a deposit to get MM iron instead.

[nosaj]

I know the quality of transformers is very important... but what makes MM better than say.. classictone? I don’t have the two to make a direct comparison, and it probably depends on transformer specs, but in regards to what I’m putting in my amp, what would make MM better than classictone for the sale value? Brand name and reputation alone? Has anyone observed a significant increase in quality with either one? They both seem good, but classictone is so much cheaper, and I’m having a hard time justifying the almost $400 it will require from a deposit to get MM iron instead.

Marketing is what makes them better and more expensive. Classictone,Hammond, Heyboyer, try them you'll like them.
nosaj

[Steelwitch]

Marketing is what makes them better and more expensive. Classictone,Hammond, Heyboyer, try them you'll like them.
nosaj

Very cool! That’s the answer I was hoping for

[g1]

I'd say part of it is massive markup for their dealers. They do not allow anyone to publish or advertise prices below MSRP. I could be wrong but my understanding is that their dealer cost is not all that out of line with other mfgrs. So the money isn't all going into their own pockets, but it helps keep a dealer base that will push their products because it is so much more profit.

[Justin Thomas]

I also know the full-page full-color ads in VG (MM) are a lot more expensive than the 1/4-or-less page B&W ads that other tranny mfrs use... That might account for some of that price...

Justin

[g1]

All that being said, I've mentioned this before but the re-vamped website seems to have really dialed down the rhetoric.

[Chuck H]

And it's fair to say that MM is usually at or near the top in "shootout" type comparisons. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about how they sound. Of course I haven't heard much of that about any transformer company. Most people like to (have to?) believe that whatever they bought is great and there's no desire to question it. That said...

The difference heard in those shootouts is tiny and SUBJECTIVE. Often reviewed here, members commonly disagree about the desirable tonal attributes and which transformer delivers. Basically you can't go wrong if you go with a known manufacturer like Hammond, Heyboer, Edcor, and others (even MM). And IIRC the Classictone iron is typically good, but often rates lower in the shootouts. My experience with them is limited and I liked the one I used for what it was. Though not much was asked of it which is why I shopped price for that project. Personally, I'm a Hammond guy. Nothing but good results. But they're a little spendy too. Not on the order of MM though.

And don't let any MM hype convince you that you need a new power transformer to improve your tone. Unless your existing transformer is sorely lacking in it's ability to do the job that notion is pure hogwash and there are plenty of transformers less expensive than MM iron for that chore.

[nosaj]

And it's fair to say that MM is usually at or near the top in "shootout" type comparisons. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about how they sound. Of course I haven't heard much of that about any transformer company. Most people like to (have to?) believe that whatever they bought is great and there's no desire to question it. That said...

The difference heard in those shootouts is tiny and SUBJECTIVE. Often reviewed here, members commonly disagree about the desirable tonal attributes and which transformer delivers. Basically you can't go wrong if you go with a known manufacturer like Hammond, Heyboer, Edcor, and others (even MM). And IIRC the Classictone iron is typically good, but often rates lower in the shootouts. My experience with them is limited and I liked the one I used for what it was. Though not much was asked of it which is why I shopped price for that project. Personally, I'm a Hammond guy. Nothing but good results. But they're a little spendy too. Not on the order of MM though.

And don't let any MM hype convince you that you need a new power transformer to improve your tone. Unless your existing transformer is sorely lacking in it's ability to do the job that notion is pure hogwash.

To me the whole idea of them trying to sell you something that make you sound better reeks,....now if they sold Fingers with soul now that would be different.

nosaj

[Justin Thomas]

Personally, I'm a Hammond guy. Nothing but good results. But they're a little spendy...

Same here. And they're also a little bit "overkill," so you almost have to TRY to blow them up. Which, when every amp is different & unfamiliar, well, I like the margin of error.

Justin

[Leo_Gnardo]

Not a whole lot of experience with Mercury transformers. Two instances to relate. 1: Stock Fender Bandmaster head. Except for the OT, a MM substitute. Bright, harsh, shrill. Must be all that "extra bandwidth" that supposedly makes amps sound better with their iron. I'm far from convinced. Amp checked out in every other way. Short of swapping OT's I recommended, keep the bright switches off, treble dialed down, find speakers that don't accentuate the annoying frequency response of the amp. and B) Long time customer has a Gries 1x12 boo-teek combo, essentially a double power Princeton with 6L6 output tubes. Amp quits in the middle of a show. Naturally... Mercury power transformer dead, no explanation. Amp's never been abused, so there's no excuse. I replaced it with a stock Fender style transformer intended for Vibrolux Reverb and similar amps, about $100. No further problems.

I hope yez all will understand if I fail to be impressed with MM. The only reason possibly to buy one is if it's some amp for which no other substitute can be found, and the amp must absolutely be made to work. The closest I came was a $100 garage sale find, a customer snagged a red-knob The Twin which had been chainsawed away from it's speaker complement and turned into a head. The PT was kaput, MM's replacement a princely $400. Customer told me no dice, keep the head, dissect it for parts. Got a nice pokey Fender OT out of that, and a chassis that may someday sport an entirely different amp.

[nosaj]

Not a whole lot of experience with Mercury transformers. Two instances to relate. 1: Stock Fender Bandmaster head. Except for the OT, a MM substitute. Bright, harsh, shrill. Must be all that "extra bandwidth" that supposedly makes amps sound better with their iron. I'm far from convinced. Amp checked out in every other way. Short of swapping OT's I recommended, keep the bright switches off, treble dialed down, find speakers that don't accentuate the annoying frequency response of the amp. and B) Long time customer has a Gries 1x12 boo-teek combo, essentially a double power Princeton with 6L6 output tubes. Amp quits in the middle of a show. Naturally... Mercury power transformer dead, no explanation. Amp's never been abused, so there's no excuse. I replaced it with a stock Fender style transformer intended for Vibrolux Reverb and similar amps, about $100. No further problems.

I hope yez all will understand if I fail to be impressed with MM. The only reason possibly to buy one is if it's some amp for which no other substitute can be found, and the amp must absolutely be made to work. The closest I came was a $100 garage sale find, a customer snagged a red-knob The Twin which had been chainsawed away from it's speaker complement and turned into a head. The PT was kaput, MM's replacement a princely $400. Customer told me no dice, keep the head, dissect it for parts. Got a nice pokey Fender OT out of that, and a chassis that may someday sport an entirely different amp.

Same here got one too free PT an OT. Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet.

nosaj

[soundmasterg]

My experience with MM is alright.

In one instance I had to replace a PT from a Magnatone 260 for a friend. That amp and a real 1951 Tele were his sound, so he needed it as close to original as it could get. A rewind of his PT cost more than a new MM PT, and it isn't as common of an amp as a Fender, so we went with it. Amp worked well, sounded great and he was back in business. It cost a LOT though, but there wasn't many good options.

The 2nd example was of another friend who was having someone build an amp for him and they were taking too long, so he asked me to do it. He supplied all the parts, including a MM PT, OT, and choke. I put my own design into it based on the parts in use, and his desires, and he is happy. The amp sounds good. I'm sure he paid a LOT for the transformer set however.

Would I buy MM? Not for my own amps, and not for customer amps unless I couldn't get it elsewhere....they are just too expensive, and to get to a dealer level so the price gets reasonable costs too much. If a customer wanted them, I'd use them, and I'd be confident they would work fine and sound good too.

I generally prefer Heyboer for new manufacture.

Greg

[Steelwitch]

Thanks for the responses, y’all! I managed to snag a classictone 20w 8k output transformer for $20 which is exactly what I needed. Specifically for a prototype of an original design. So, we will see if it does what I need it to do, maybe I’ll snag a Heyboer just to A/B them

[tedmich]

The real tone secret is a MM multi choke in the power supply right?



now if I could just rig up a MIDI control scheme for the multi choke...

[rockon1]

They have a really cool name!