Still no break-up. 2x 5F1's.

[Jazz P Bass]

[QUOTE=Sea Chief;36168

Can anyone pls remind me of testing the HV secondaries: as per spiel btm of #5 ?

[/QUOTE]

Post #3?
How hard can it be?
Two wires.
Two test leads.
Set your meter to read Volts/ac.

[Jazz P Bass]

This is why I'm sayin' we could do a lot better with some schematics. If I had a 5f1 and it didn't get dirty with an SG I'd fix BEFORE plugging a boost pedal into it.

http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...-champ_5f1.pdf

[Chuck H]

Thanks Jazz. I was actually interested in schematics for the amps in question, which aren't exactly 5f1's. How different I can't say. Too often when anyone sells or discusses any three tube 5W amp the word "Champ" comes into play. In this case an actual model designation.

Ok amp1 one is a 5F1 + a tone + SS rectifier/ I cant remember exactly what it is! but a simple SE 6v6 5w.

Neither of these amps seem to be a 5F1. So, what are they??? Perhaps they're performing exactly as they should.

[Sea Chief]

Post #3?
How hard can it be?
Two wires.
Two test leads.
Set your meter to read Volts/ac.

No, its not hard JazzP.. but its been 3 years since I made amp1 so Im rusty/ best be reminded.

So am I measuring each wire's VAC with one probe to ground, or across the two wires at the recifier? SC

[Sea Chief]

Thanks Jazz. I was actually interested in schematics for the amps in question, which aren't exactly 5f1's. How different I can't say. Too often when anyone sells or discusses any three tube 5W amp the word "Champ" comes into play. In this case an actual model designation.



Neither of these amps seem to be a 5F1. So, what are they??? Perhaps they're performing exactly as they should.

Chuck- Amp2 is a plain jane 5F1 circuit (albeit with a PT with prolly not the usual 325-0-325v as said). It does have a svery small OT that states 2w too.. but I tried (rewired OT to 8 Ohms) the amp via an ext cab 112 to see if any break-up (none) and its as loud as amp1 which is 5w. It also had shoddy overblown bass via this 112 spkr but thats by the by/ so I rewired back & partners a tiny 8" 4 Ohm spkr which is crap, but at least balanced (better than its stupid awful bassy sound into the 112: far bassier than my 'wem dominator bass mk3' amp with its proper 15" bass spkr).

Amp1 is simply a 5F1 with a tone control (and a MV- which, of course does fk-all!). Also it has a ss rectifier. This makes a slightly bassy but balanced sound into the 112, the tone knob a great help tbh, it was a dark amp before.

Thanks Sea Chief.

[Alex R]

The guitar is a common factor. Have you tried another one?

Or your guitar through another amp? While we're on that topic, can you offer us an example of a guitar/amp combination you have tried that gives you the overdrive sound you desire? Or any overdrive sound?

[Sea Chief]

The guitar is a common factor. Have you tried another one?

Or your guitar through another amp? While we're on that topic, can you offer us an example of a guitar/amp combination you have tried that gives you the overdrive sound you desire? Or any overdrive sound?

Hi Alex-

2 gtrs a gibson sg and a squier strat.

I am not into the luxury of even beginning to choose an OD sound I like yet (Im not even in the same galaxy).. Im waaaay back from that/ Im trying to get -any- OD sound: so whether that flukes the most searingly creamy Neil Young sound, or a lumpier sovtek OD sound I absolutely dont mind at this stage. If I get -any OD at all as Ive been trying for years- I have climbed a mountain. THEN I can start on tailoring the amps sound- but this is a pipe-dream I just can't see happening after so much effort/ Im exhausted with it tbh.

JazzP: incidentally what would an oscilloscope tell us though? that the sinewave is not clipping when one might usually expect? (that we know- so I cant see the reason for the oscilloscop idea, for it wouldn't tell us surely -where or why- just that it either is clipping or not basically-?).

Thanks, SC

[Chuck H]

re: the guitar...

I noticed your other thread about your SG being particularly dark. This could be indicative of a wiring or pickup problem. And the Squire strat (unless equipped with a humbucker) isn't a good second opinion on the matter because it doesn't have nearly the output the SG should have. Single coils into a 5F1 will only clip a little, which is your complaint. The SG should clip a lot, but yours only clips a little. Get where I'm going with this?

Try another humbucker equipped guitar and a different instrument cable into your little amps as soon as possible. It's the next step in troubleshooting the problems you're having.

Unless you're cranking your Dom it also doesn't qualify as a base reference. You mention somewhere that the Champs are almost as loud as your Dom. Impossible. It's likely that your Dom simply has enough gain to sound bigger with a poor signal from your SG. Everything about the amps is only speculation until we rule out a possible problem with the SG and/or instrument cable. And making changes or repairs to an amp based on speculation can only serve to confuse the issue and make arriving at a solution more difficult.

A repeated scenario here on the forum is a poster that has a problem, then ignores advice and proceeds with a non confirmed course of action. Then the poster disappears for a while. Sometimes a long while. Then that poster reappears with a thread indicating they had to shelve the project due to time constraints and frustration, but are now ready to try again. Because the issues have now been confounded by unendorsed action and much time has passed it becomes more difficult to troubleshoot and it isn't uncommon for the poster to disappear again without resolution. Don't be that guy.

If you don't have access to another humbucker equipped guitar and instrument cable, please wait until you do and don't do anything to the amps until you have positively ruled out your SG and/or instrument cable as potential contributors to the problem.

[Sea Chief]

Chuck-

there's nothing wrong with the gibson. I bought it nearly new, it sounds exactly like my last gibson SG Standard/ like a gibson should. And also did a stop gap gtr, an EPi SG: exactly as dark. Its 'dark' because that is how its made. It sounds fine through both amps as does the strat: exactly as I expect ((tho I dont expect both amps to stay clean at max vol)). I have never heard of, or played, or owned any gtr that has a wiring problem & I certainly wouldn't have spent a good few £100's on one with any prob whatsoever or didnt sound as I expect and know very well after 25 years of owning SG's, an SG to sound). It is catagorically 110% not either gtrs.

Honestly- look I wouldn't spend so much time not having checked such a fundamental thing. It sounds a 1/3rd louder than the strat, this is normal/ as Id expect. It sounds dark yes but they do. Dark aint the issue here- it can be as dark as it likes for this thread & the OD sound can be absoutley piss-poor in terms of quality too.. this ain't the issue either/ the quality of the OD sound, or the gtr sound are completely irrelevant. I can address both these separately if needs be in due time. What I want is some, any -any at all- 5F1 amp distortion.

I haven't mentioned that my Champs are as loud as my dom. I have never turned up my dom, sadly, above 4 so how perceptively loud it is at 6-10 I don't know!

Thanks, sea Chief.

[loudthud]

Let's stop messing around. Post some in focus pictures of the inside of one of the amps and take voltage readings at all the tube socket pins. It's probably something off the wall like using 10K resistors where 100K should be.

[Sea Chief]

Chaps-

can someone remind me how to add a photo? Ive the feeling Im being taken for little more than a chump (or chimp) with my champ. I want to prove that I'm more able than the fat hopeless sweaty herbert you think.

Chief.

[Jazz P Bass]

[QUOTE=Sea Chief;361760]Chaps-can someone remind me how to add a photo? QUOTE]

Click on 'Reply'.
When that box opens you will see, at the top fourth from the right, 'Insert Image'.
Click on that.
'Browse to the photo on your hard drive.
Click 'Upload File.'

[Jazz P Bass]

So am I measuring each wire's VAC with one probe to ground, or across the two wires at the recifier? SC

Not to ground.
Across the winding.

[g1]

Can ya'll check me on this, an SG is only 1/3 louder than a strat?

Edit: And Chief, I don't know about you, but for me it's always the one thing I refuse to check and am 110% sure about that turns around and bites me in the hind-quarters. Murphy's law and all... .
Like the man always says, "never think up reasons not to check something".

[guitician]

How are you playing this amp? Do you set the amps volume all the way up? Do you hit the strings hard to generate the most output from your guitar?
When you said that the 5E3 was too loud and unusable, that is what distortion is with simple tube amps, they are played loud!
I recently put together a champ clone from some old parts and it gets great distortion from my LesPaul with HB's, but only when I turn it almost all the way up.