Are Illinois caps better the Weber-branded caps?

[Humbucker]

The five original power supply filter caps in my 1969 Vibrolux Reverb are 16uF/450VDC electrolytics, there's a guy in my area that has five 22uF/500V Illinois electrolytic caps for $53.00 USD (taxes-in).

Is it okay to use larger uF caps in this amp's power supply and bias circuit? This amp has a 50uF/70VDC bias cap, this fellow has a 100uF/100VDC. Would this 100/100 cap be okay to use instead of a 50uF/75VDC?

I know that these Illinois caps are good but they're a little bit pricey IMHO, would I be better off buying some caps from Weber if money's a little bit tight? They're a LOT cheaper, that's for sure.

[nicksorenson]

Hi there,
I think the IC caps are fine. If you use weber make sure you get the right voltage rating for your amp. My Fender twin runs at 460. Weber's caps are rated at 450 I believe. I've had their power supply caps pop in a kit I used from them. So just be carefull. Fender usually used 525 for the B, C, and D supplies. The A+ is two 350 Volt caps in series to equal a voltage rating of 700 which is more than safe. Anyways, that's the general rule with caps. Over-rate your voltages.

About the bias cap, I've read that it's sized the way it is for a time constant. I don't know the true answer to that. But if you have a problem, I'd suspect that's your cause. Can't hurt to try right!

Anyways, you can use all kinds of brands to meet your requirement. Solen makes polypropelene filter caps. Those probably sound good. Anything should work though

[TD_Madden]

Antique Electronics Supply (www.tubesandmore.com) has got 20mf/500v Sprague Atoms for $5.85 each...$8.96 for 600v.

[ken]

IC caps suck ass... but they are relatively well available.

I use Atoms 99% of the time, and F+T when I can't get Atoms.

Only when the customer specs IC will I use these.

Ken

[Humbucker]

Update!

Update:

Well, I decided to fill out an order with Antique Electronics, they're having a 10% off everything event, today is the last day BTW.

I ordered some Sprague Atom electrolytics, 20uF/500V for power supply, 25uF/25V for pre-amp, 100uF/100V for bias supply, .001uF/600V orange drop input cap for phase inverter and I also ordered a 5AR4 rectifier tube. Good prices!

I really think that these new caps are going to greatly improve the sound of this little Vibrolux Reverb amp, this amp may very well become my favourite amp.

[Amp Kat]

IC caps suck ass... but they are relatively well available.

I use Atoms 99% of the time, and F+T when I can't get Atoms.

Only when the customer specs IC will I use these.

Ken

Ken can you elaborate some on why you don't like the IC ? I've used them in several Fenders and have yet to have any type of problems or bad out of box failures. Weber VST also supported the smaller type and one of their tips of the day was due to the fact that caps are made better today and smaller than the old age. That batch of Sprague Atoms that everyone is using are starting to get old as they were made a good while back and they aren't making any more so when they are gone there gone. The whole thing is that when they make these caps they make them in a huge alotment and there isn't a high enough demand for the cap to make that many. At least they think there isn't a high enough demand. I'd be willing to pool up some cash for a big batch because I don't want to pay what were paying now even with a discount pricing. Another problem is the F&T and Ruby's are often not in stock when you order them. If someone would make a decent 20uf 500v cap at a good price and availability they would corner the market on that item much like the Sprague cap but it's scarcity has caused the price to go up $3.50 in the last few months. Sure you can pass it on to the customer but who wants to do that ?

[MWJB]

Hi TD,

Those 20uf/600v Spragues are BIG caps (92mm long body), you'll really struggle to fit them into a Twin/SR Fender cap pan, definitely no go in the smaller 5F6A/Deluxe/Tremolux/Vibrolux pans. You could conceivably fit them in the top of a tolex chassis for the screen supply if you had a particularly high B+ at this point, but I think most guys would give them a miss and stick with the 20uf/500v Sprague or the 20uf/550v TAD/F&T caps.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I talked to Andy at MOJO a couple months ago and a spokesperson from Sprague had told MOJO that Sprague is continuing to make the ATOM line... but,
it is a small portion of their production and the cost will be mich higher to warrant the small production.

Here is the actual test on the MOJO website:
***********************
Sprague Atom important information:

The original text here has been reworded to be more accurate and fair with regards to Sprague.

Sprague Atoms are a historical product which has served well for vintage amplifier reproduction and repair. During the past 10 years or so they were listed as “not suggested for new designs”. According to Sprague this is not because they intend to discontinue them at any time. Regardless of this the price has doubled and we have decided its time to move on to other sources.

So what to do? Our solution currently is to work with the Tube Amp Dr on their successful capacitor line. As we run out of stock on each Atom type it will be replaced by the comparable TAD type. The physical size of the TADs will be smaller - and the price will be somewhat less - but the operation will continue to be the same. If any of the values have shortcomings we will work with TAD to overcome them, but they have been very good about having the foresight to avoid possible issues with their products and the samples on the caps we have seem to be no exception. The 16uf/475v Atom as mentioned will be the first replacement and will be printed 16uf/450v. This designation is actually 450v nominal and can easily handle a 475v circuit. However subsequent runs will be made 475v nominal. There should never be an issue unless you have been using Atoms in a circuit that achieves higher than 475v already.
*******************************

So, I guess in order to make it profitable the prices have risen .... and IMHO, to absurd levels!!
I usually buy a hundred or more ATOM caps of any one value at a time but I've been finding more and more bad ones right out the box and the cost is too high.
So, based on what I think is a rediculous price, I've made an attempt to avoid using them and now saddle my customers with more then the extra cost for demanding them (and believing all the Net driven drivel about the Sprague ATOM superiority, ha ha) ... especially when there are many lower cost high voltage caps out there that are just as good! ha ha

[Amp Kat]

The Mouser catalog 626 list a TVA 1906 @ $5.74 and 100 @ 3.83. I called the other day and three catalog #'s up they are $8.33 now and $6.42. CE is still cheaper but man I'm like you Bruce it's just the idea that ticks me off. If these were not used in every Fender do you think they would be this high? Even though all Electrolytics have risen because of the price increase in Aluminum it's just unbelievable. I did my last Sprague cap job Friday as I'm not supporting the higher prices. Thanks for that rundown Bruce that was some great info !

[ken]

I hate IC caps for the same reason I hate JJ tubes... they have the life expectancy of a wax cat in hell.

I will pay whatever I have to to get a quality part, so as long as there are Atoms caps I will buy. I have had IC caps fail in vintage amps in a year or so, and seen new Fenders with IC caps start leaking (humming) in less than two. My '61 Twin is especially hard on caps for some reason, when I bought it it was recapped with IC's the year before, and died a year later. I bought it dead, and when I opened it up, one of the 20x500's had blown the end off and unrolled all over the place. I put in Atoms, and no issues at all. No sags and hums either, after 3 years of loud play.

IMHO paying $6.00 for a cap and fixing my amp once is better than paying $2.50 and fixing it three times.

Ken

[bob p]

I hate IC caps for the same reason I hate JJ tubes... they have the life expectancy of a wax cat in hell.

my experience with JJ tubes has not been as bad as yours. in fact, its been 100% the opposite. who are you using as your supplier for JJ tubes, and what kind of problems have you been having with them?

[hasserl]

This was posted on The Gear Page:

"Dear members of this community
My name is Walter Bonomo. I am Marketing Director for Aluminum capacitors for Vishay/Sprague and responsible for the TVA Atom product line, among others. I would like to state that, despite information on some websites, THERE IS NO INTENTION TO DISCONTINUE THE TVA ATOM PRODUCT LINE.
We were indeed forced to make price adjustments to this line due to increasing costs of raw materials. On the other hand, the intention is to continue the manufacturing and supply of these products, under the existing channels.
If any doubts, or if you want to check the authenticity of this post, please feel free to email me.
I appreciate if you can help me discontinue these rumors and spread the correct information.

Regards
Walter Bonomo
Marketing Director
Aluminum Capacitors
Vishay"

The validity of the post was question by Doug Roccaforte, who was going to check into it, but he never posted back. I assume it's legit and that's why Doug did not respond.

[bob p]

this wouldn't be the first legitimate thing that i've seen him question.

[soundmasterg]

I"ve had issues with the IC caps going bad too and will not use them. I've had excellent results with the Xicons that AES/CE sells, with Weber's caps, and with F & T's. I've used the Atoms but with their high prices I go elsewhere, and usually use F & T mixed with Xicons or Webers. AES/CE sells both the IC's and the Xicons, and they look similar to each other, but the IC's are grey and rated for 500v on the bigger ones, and the Xicons are blue and rated for 450v.

[tedweber]

This was posted on The Gear Page:
The validity of the post was question by Doug Roccaforte, who was going to check into it, but he never posted back. I assume it's legit and that's why Doug did not respond.

Oh.. it's legitimate, alright. I'm the one who prompted the response from Vishay. When I saw all the talk about that, I emailed Vishay and got an immediate response from Walter. So, I gave him some the name of some forums where he might post the correct info.

We were thinking about carrying the TVA's, so I was inquiring about minumum quantities, lead times, etc. While I asking about that, I mentioned the rumors. Apparently it really struck a chord with him.


Ted