Electron path of travel

[trem]

This is a very interesting topic which trem started. I like the different views, logic, understanding and arguments.

What this thread was based on though was a quote from MERLIN taken from a paragraph in his book. I did not read anything describing the context from which the quote was taken. Exactly to what was MERLIN making reference? I'm not going to buy MERLIN's book, so can someone share and explain.

Is MerlinB any relation to the magic MERLIN, the Valve Wizard, book man?

Somewhere in the first 3 pages you will find the exact quote in one of my posts. He had mentioned current flowing down through the cathode and then to ground. I have always thought in terms of electron flow ( - to + ), so "conventional flow" ( + to - ) is always tough for me. PLUS I made the common mistake of thinking that current and electrons are the same thing. People often use the two words as though they are interchangeable. Frequently it is not a problem, because everybody understands the assumption. But I was asking some rather specific questions, and it was causing a problem to use the two words "hand in hand" so to speak. Enzo provided some good analogies about the way we all say things that are not correct, but we all except the terms of use.
It is important to understand the idea of current being the flow of electrons, and the electron itself. I was having a hard time making that separation, and it has turned into a 12 page Marathon. But there has been a lot of good discussion and exchange of ideas because of it. You always hear guys talk about how "simple" the old tube, guitar amp circuits are, and that may be true. But the principles of the electrons and the electricity that exists in these amps is anything but simple. And it can be hard to simplify some of these complexities so that a "beginner" like myself can grasp some of these concepts. But I am glad this thread happened. I have a whole new understanding of electronics now, just from asking one "simple" question.
Best

[cagamp1]

Trem, yes, I read through the post. I saw the analogies.

Charges in motion constitute an electric current. That is what should be understood.

My question was in what context did MERLIN use it? I don't have the material to read, so please describe his use and intent.

(My membership may stipulate junior, but that is only in regard to this forum)

[Wilder Amplification]

Trem, yes, I read through the post. I saw the analogies.

Charges in motion constitute an electric current. That is what should be understood.

My question was in what context did MERLIN use it? I don't have the material to read, so please describe his use and intent.

(My membership may stipulate junior, but that is only in regard to this forum)

Merlin's book tries to teach valves as if current flows from the plate to the cathode, then to ground...i.e. "conventional current flow". However, what trem pointed out was that valves are electron devices and as such conventional current flow logic simply doesn't add up when explaining valve operation. I had stated this once before here a few months back that when explaining valves going by conventional current flow the logic simply doesn't add up.

The books that teach electron valve operation don't even explain it this way so why he chose to use conventional current flow I have no idea.

[mooreamps]

This is a very interesting topic which trem started. I like the different views, logic, understanding and arguments.

What this thread was based on though was a quote from MERLIN taken from a paragraph in his book. I did not read anything describing the context from which the quote was taken. Exactly to what was MERLIN making reference? I'm not going to buy MERLIN's book, so can someone share and explain.

Is MerlinB any relation to the magic MERLIN, the Valve Wizard, book man?

Try asking the question to Kevin. He does publish an excellent series of tech books for Vacuum Tube Amplification...

Tube Amp Books & More by Kevin O'Connor

-g

[cagamp1]

Thanks Jon. Conventional method is more for the sake of analyzing. It should be mentioned and understood.

But was Mr. MERLIN speaking of AC, DC, both or what in respect to current?

I would still like to understand the context from which the quote was taken. What exactly was MERLIN's topic in those paragraphs or chapter?

[cagamp1]

Try asking the question to Kevin. He does publish an excellent series of tech books for Vacuum Tube Amplification...

Tube Amp Books & More by Kevin O'Connor

-g

I have some. I like Kevin's stuff. Is he on this forum? I didn't notice.

But this is in reference to MERLIN's writing. It is open to interpretation especially when the actual material isn't in front of you.

Awesome...just tested two xf2's at 6600 on a 539C...gottem for $50. I'm happy!

[guitarmike2107]

I bought Kevins first book (TUT) a few years ago. It has some fantastic info and allot of it too but the I found the presention of the information was lacking or failed to give a complete understanding to those with a basic understanding of electronics.(me at the time) His opinionated views didn’t help either. Overall I was disappointed.
Last year I asked my wife to buy me his speaker cab book for Christmas, when it arrived I was equally disappointed.

Needless to say there are many that have got allot from his books, like yourself Gary, but they are not books for everyone.

I have one of Kuehnels books on the way now, Also probably not for those with basic amp circuit understanding, but going by his webpage it should be well presented.

Oh I also have 5 copies of Merlins Power supply book 4 copies of his pre amp book on the way, his presentation method can’t be faulted and I would recommend them in a second.
All books have errors, especially first addition technical books. I remember that much from university days.

[guitarmike2107]

is that a big penis you're pointing at on your t-shirt... thats funny.

[cagamp1]

is that a big penis you're pointing at on your t-shirt... thats funny.

Yes Mike, I hear ya. Kevin's books do skip over the basics of electronics going straight into the meat and potatoes of amps. But, his books weren't intended for beginners. I've always liked Tom Mitchell's "How to Service Your Own Tube Amp" as a good starter. It has lots of basic and pertinent information. Of course, it's still not like being schooled.

And, that's not a tube snake...it's a vacuum tube on my shirt! Ha, ha...

Still wating for the MERLIN quote explanation...someone...anyone?

[mooreamps]

Needless to say there are many that have got allot from his books, like yourself Gary, but they are not books for everyone.

Perhaps a point well taken.. For me, they served as a refresher in the basics and yes those books would assume some basic understanding of electronics in general..

-g

[trem]

Yes Mike, I hear ya. Kevin's books do skip over the basics of electronics going straight into the meat and potatoes of amps. But, his books weren't intended for beginners. I've always liked Tom Mitchell's "How to Service Your Own Tube Amp" as a good starter. It has lots of basic and pertinent information. Of course, it's still not like being schooled.

And, that's not a tube snake...it's a vacuum tube on my shirt! Ha, ha...

Still wating for the MERLIN quote explanation...someone...anyone?

He was talking about biasing a preamp tube, and quiescent anode current. The rest you have already read in my direct quote.

[mbratch]

This is still my favorite explanation of electricity.

[Merlinb]

Still wating for the MERLIN quote explanation...someone...anyone?

My book concerns circuit design, not physical operation, so I use conventional current. This is in keeping with all standard electronics textbooks.

[cagamp1]

Thanks Trem. Hi Merlin.

That answers my question...basic amplifier tube bias from a conventional design standpoint.

Thanks again.

[ThermionicScott]

I have one of Kuehnels books on the way now, Also probably not for those with basic amp circuit understanding, but going by his webpage it should be well presented.

Be forewarned that Richard Kuehnel tends to use conventional current flow on his diagrams as well, while acknowledging the "incorrect" nature of it.

I love his books, though. I learn something new every time I pick them up.

- Scott