A look inside a Lane Poor MM5.

[David Schwab]

Oh and both are side winders.

I wasn't expecting that! On the other hand, I sent a set of my sidewinders to a luthier I make pickups for, and he thought they sounded a lot like Lane Poors. I've never heard a LP in person so I'll have to take his word for it.

You can shield them and not alter the tone. You have to avoid closed loops.

[12Bass]

What a great thread... and full of familiar names too!

Years ago I bought a few LPs from David King for my Hamer 12-string and Pedulla Rapture 5. The M3.5Ws (wide aperture) are still in the Hamer. The SB3.950 (wide aperture) sounded great in the Pedulla, but wasn't properly radiused, and also picked up too much EMI for a gigging bass. I eventually installed a Q-tuner BL-5 in the Rapture, and have been very happy with it; the Q-tuner has more output and more extended frequency response, plus adjustable polepieces to match radius, and it lacks the noise issues of LPs.

Even though Lane sent some ferrite cores and a pair of replacement pickups, we never we able to eliminate the EMI problems on my Hamer 12 either. However, I never had a problem with 60 Hz hum from Lane's pickups. I think things like dimmers are probably one of the worst EMI sources. The LPs are a bit low output, but otherwise still sound great, IMO.

[David Schwab]

I've heard those noisy Poor pickups were the result of an error... likely the shielding wasn't properly grounded.

Q-Tuners on the other hand have no shielding, and he doesn't even ground any of the internal parts.

[12Bass]

I've heard those noisy Poor pickups were the result of an error... likely the shielding wasn't properly grounded.

Q-Tuners on the other hand have no shielding, and he doesn't even ground any of the internal parts.

The Qs are pretty quiet... though they still pick up a little noise in certain situations, or if you touch the pole pieces.

Just to clarify, in case it wasn't clear, the noise problems I have had with the LP wide apertures are not hum related. Rather, they tend to be susceptible to certain kinds of EMI interference, from dimmers, neon signs, and other sources of electronic nastiness. This results in a high frequency "bizzy" sort of noise added to the signal, not a low frequency hum. They do hum cancel as expected.

FWIW, I've had a few different LPs (M3.5W, M3.5HB, SB3.950 (W)), and as I recall they all had issues with EMI interference. So, I'm not sure if was a manufacturing defect, or perhaps a design issue? It does seem a bit odd considering Lane's approach to shielding.

Looking forward to the pictures of the Lane Poor wide and narrow apertures.

[David King]

Hi Kevin, what a nice surprise to find you here. Welcome.

I'll bet part of the EMI interference was just the low output. If the signal had been hotter no one would have noticed.

[12Bass]

Hi Kevin, what a nice surprise to find you here. Welcome.

I'll bet part of the EMI interference was just the low output. If the signal had been hotter no one would have noticed.

Hey David,

Nice to see you too! Thanks for all of your help through the years!

All sorts of insightful people contributing to this thread.

Actually, I don't find the output of the LP M3.5Ws on my Hamer 12-string (B12L) to be that low. Lower than the originals, for sure... but not a whole lot different than a standard Bartolini. Perhaps the extra vibrating mass contributes to the volume.

I had the chance to compare my B12L with a couple of others last summer, one at the Guitar Center in Hollywood, and another fretless B12L owned by Mark Rowe (who runs the 12-string bass website), both equipped with the standard EMGs. It reaffirmed to me that I prefer the more delicate/refined/natural sound of the Lane Poors.

Mark didn't articulate his preference, but his body language seemed to indicate that he wasn't that impressed by the LPs. The volume difference alone made the EMGs sound a lot more "alive". However, once they are level-matched, the nuances from the LPs are much more apparent. One thing I did notice was that the EMG 35DCs have more punch in the lower midrange, one area where I find my 12-string can be a bit lacking. I suspect that the flatter/more extended/deeper tone profile of the LPs gets buried in a mix more easily.

[ModulusMK]

Belwar, when are you going to post the pics from the W's?

[David Schwab]

One thing I did notice was that the EMG 35DCs have more punch in the lower midrange, one area where I find my 12-string can be a bit lacking.

The thought of a 12-string with DCs makes my teeth hurt! I had DCs in a few of my basses when they first came out. They sounded good on the fretless in the MM location, but were too harsh for my other basses. They have this annoying upper mid peak that you can't get rid of! They also lack low end compared to the pickups I replaced them with.

[12Bass]

The thought of a 12-string with DCs makes my teeth hurt! I had DCs in a few of my basses when they first came out. They sounded good on the fretless in the MM location, but were too harsh for my other basses. They have this annoying upper mid peak that you can't get rid of! They also lack low end compared to the pickups I replaced them with.

Yep, harsh is right.... especially on the octave strings. The EMGs required a lot of EQ to remove the icepick upper midrange/highs. The amplified sound of the bass became so much more natural when the LPs were installed.... warmer, yet more open, more acoustic, and much less harsh.

Don't understand what Hamer was/is thinking in using these pickups on their 12-strings. When I was in NYC area a few years ago I offered to stop in with my B12L, but the Hamer folks didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my email.

It would be very interesting to compare your new sidewinders with some LP wide apertures and the Q-tuners.

[David Schwab]

Yep, harsh is right.... especially on the octave strings. The EMGs required a lot of EQ to remove the icepick upper midrange/highs. The amplified sound of the bass became so much more natural when the LPs were installed.... warmer, yet more open, more acoustic, and much less harsh.

Don't understand what Hamer was/is thinking in using these pickups on their 12-strings. When I was in NYC area a few years ago I offered to stop in with my B12L, but the Hamer folks didn't even have the courtesy to reply to my email.

It would be very interesting to compare your new sidewinders with some LP wide apertures and the Q-tuners.

As a side note, the first pickup I rewound was for my 8-string bass. It was a modified P bass, with two DiMarzio P pickups. It was very harsh in the midrange, and the only way I could get a useable tone where any fundamental could be heard was to install a varitone to notch out the mids.

Later on I took a real P bass pickup I used to have in my Rick (it was a 72 pickup .. probably would be worth a lot of money now!) and rewound it with about 500 turns of 42 AWG I unwound from a mudbucker. I ran that through a Barcus Berry preamp, and boy did that sound nice! It had a clear but smooth tone. That tone was what I was going after when I started doing my low Z pickups a few years back.

So it all started with trying to get a good tone from an 8-string bass.

Here it is with two low-Z P pickups and onboard preamp back in my old workshop in Hoboken NJ.

[12Bass]

I've finished my disection of the M40N and N40W, and will post the results. It was illuminating on several levels. I learned alot about the effect that shielding has one the resonance peak.

Oh and both are side winders.

Would love to see the results for the other Lane Poor pickups!

[ModulusMK]

Would love to see the results for the other Lane Poor pickups!

Yeah, I'm waiting for them too! It's been a while this is posted but no reply from belwar yet...

[belwar]

The photos are on my wifes camera and I got side tracked with a new pickup project that was time sensitive - and now complete.

I have not forgotten about it, but my time has been short for anything other direct immediate projects. It's on of those "when I have a free second, or im in the mood" kind of things :> The suspense is killing you!

[tubby.twins]

Resurrecting a dormant thread

Hi all,

I've noticed that an issue has developed recently with one of my Lane Poor pickups. The pickup is a lane poor model "M40HB" which should be structurally similar to the pickup that Belwar dissected earlier.

It used to be fine before, but now I notice that the output of this humbucker is much quieter than it used to be, in a "normal" (passive) configuration. I ran some tests with a multimeter. The total DC resistance between the "common" and "hot" leads is around 7.5Kohms. However, the DC resistance between "common" and the ground wire is around 3.7Kohms, and the DC resistance between "hot" and the ground wire is around 3.7Kohms as well.

I discovered this when connecting the pickup to an Audere 3ZB pre-amp, which uses DC coupling and supplies 1/2 the battery voltage to the pickup common leads. At first it worked okay, but after a few days it started behaving very strangely. Turning any of the pots resulted in a weird scratchy noise with a LOT of subsonic noise. (My amp's woofers were going crazy!)

I ran the Audere recommended "tap test" and made sure that the pre-amp wasn't at fault. This is when I used the multimeter and found the odd resistance issue. I reconnected everything except the pickup's ground wire, and the scratchy/subsonic noise went away immediately. However, this pickup is no longer humbucking, since it seems to pick up all kinds of buzz and noise. It was not this way when I ordered it 10 years ago, nor recently (a few months ago). It only developed this issue in the past few weeks.

Ideas? Suggestions?

[ModulusMK]

You mentioned that the preamp supplies 1/2 of the battery to the pickup. In 'normal' preamps this shouldn't be this way (measured ground to input, this must be ~0V). I haven't worked with Audere but with lots others and none of them supplies voltage to the pickup, so this shoudn't either.

If it is so, it's no wonder you get subsonic noise at output and possibility to damage the pickup (and the amp's input as well, so be careful and check this on your preamp).

Preamps should be able to receive voltage at their input then buffer and amplify it, not to supply the output of the 'source', at the output preamp should deliver minimal voltage that goes to the amp.

If you are sure this is this way it might be the preamp that damaged the pickup.
My opinion.