Another Dickhead

[Spence]

This is another Dickhead calling himself Crumbhorn selling 'handwound' pickups for next to nothing this time in the UK.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tele-steel-pole-...QQcmdZViewItem

I asked him once who was winding these pickups. The reply I got was : "I winds 'em myself and people thinks they're wicked !"

He went on to suggest I should buy some.

Dickhead !

[Satamax]

Hi Spence!

Well, do you think that's realy nescessary. If he winds himself, and enjoys it, what is wrong in doing so??? Afraid of competition? Anyway, you haven't patented the guitar pickup, so do your best in making them, and hope for the best business wise. And if it doesn't work, change job, and go back making amps or guitars, or furniture (i'm diplomed guitarmaker, but work as a carpenter/cabinetmaker, when i'm off the ski slopes!, cos i have no choice!)

Bye.

Max.

[Steve Conner]

Because he's a Dick Dale fan?

[WolfeMacleod]

Competition is good. Find out what the other poeple are doing, and do it better.

[Spence]

Oh dear, you'll be sorry you're taking such a naiive line. When's the penny going to drop?

[NightWinder]

Hi Spence!

Well, do you think that's realy nescessary. If he winds himself, and enjoys it, what is wrong in doing so??? Afraid of competition? Anyway, you haven't patented the guitar pickup, so do your best in making them, and hope for the best business wise. And if it doesn't work, change job, and go back making amps or guitars, or furniture (i'm diplomed guitarmaker, but work as a carpenter/cabinetmaker, when i'm off the ski slopes!, cos i have no choice!)

Bye.

Max.

simlpy the fact of Knowing Your Shit!! Guys that are in business in real devolpment and science behind the pickups.......This is a bad juju type of feeling. The guy may very well make a great product, but if he does not......It can discourage potential buyers to his product based on the fact that they may have tryed cornkobs pickups first, and decided on his shoddy work that the extra cash for a handwind is;nt worth it because it sucked??!!!THe ripple effect......

[Satamax]

simlpy the fact of Knowing Your Shit!! Guys that are in business in real devolpment and science behind the pickups.......This is a bad juju type of feeling. The guy may very well make a great product, but if he does not......It can discourage potential buyers to his product based on the fact that they may have tryed cornkobs pickups first, and decided on his shoddy work that the extra cash for a handwind is;nt worth it because it sucked??!!!THe ripple effect......

Yes, verry nice, but that's competition, if you can't keep in business while the tossers disapear, or make your products stand out by advertising, well, do you realy deserve a space in the business??? Do you ever see Lindy Frailin or Jason Lollar complain about the small guys??? I've been on the same forum as jason and some others for a long while (mimf in 98), and there werent much home winders then, the smallest businesses were Kent armstrong and the such. Jason at the time could still find few minutes to post, now, he's having hard time, ok he emigrated over here a bit. But he's sucessfull and doesn't complain. Realy, what did pull Spence's trigger??? Fun of making pickups or prospect of making money??? Realy in the first case he wouldn't complain, and in the second case, well, will the quality be there??? Get my point?

Bye.

Max.

[Zhangliqun]

That might happen, but there's nothing anyone can do about it and it's a waste of time complaining about every new guy who comes along.

Besides for every 'dick-kob-head' pickup that comes along and turns people off of one-man-shop pu's, there's a quality handwound pu out there that has the opposite effect.

No industry is immune from the 'ripple effect' of lousy competitors. And I think this situation is actually preferable to having that many GOOD competitors out there.

[Pep]

It looks like he is getting good reviews on ebay. It sucks that he is selling them for so cheap, but consider the general rule for customer perceived quality. If it costs more it must be better. Most people are going to make the assumption that his pickups suck based on the price. Not only that, but there is no way he can be turning much profit on these. If he goes into business full-time as a pickup winder he'll a) have to raise his prices to cover operating expenses or b) go bankrupt. I don't think he's a dickhead just for selling his pickups for cheap. The guys that buy handwound pickups know that everyone's product is different and I really don't think that they would be turned off from trying someone elses wares. First time buyers are most likely going to buy from a well known winder anyway.

[NightWinder]

It looks like he is getting good reviews on ebay. It sucks that he is selling them for so cheap, but consider the general rule for customer perceived quality. If it costs more it must be better. Most people are going to make the assumption that his pickups suck based on the price. Not only that, but there is no way he can be turning much profit on these. If he goes into business full-time as a pickup winder he'll a) have to raise his prices to cover operating expenses or b) go bankrupt. I don't think he's a dickhead just for selling his pickups for cheap. The guys that buy handwound pickups know that everyone's product is different and I really don't think that they would be turned off from trying someone elses wares. First time buyers are most likely going to buy from a well known winder anyway.

True, and it bothers me nil. The fact that he is selling his stuff cheap, speaks for itsself. The RIpple effect will catch up to itself in the long run. Cheap price, POoPOO. High price- Killer tone. ANd it is sooooo true, higher prices seem to have a phsycological (SPELLING<<<FUK) effect on how your products worth. You stuff will sound better if they payed more, regardless of if it truely does. Christ! What a wierd thought.
Side note: Keep watching ebay. You may find his shit being resaled too. Thats funny.....Honestly, I have never see a Used Shed pickup, or a Dave Stevens model on ebay for resale. Tells the story. I have seen others here though...........And had some rewinds too.

[Mark Hammer]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that it is a bit like what has happened with "organic food". Once "organic" acquired cachet, every grocery store thought that they ought to move in that direction. But of course more merchants offering "organic" goods means that prices have to be cut to compete. But what counts as organic and how is that designation to be assured?

The upshot is that pressure has increased in a great many places to have some sort of certification body that can assure the organicity of goods labelled as organic, so that consumers can feel some ease in plunking down more money for apples or tomatoes labelled as "organic".

While I don't know if I agree with the extent of his alarm, I understand Spence's concern that once the market gets cluttered with a wide range of build-quality - all claiming to be "handwound" - what happens to the brand recognition of those who have been doing it right for years when the johnny-come-latelys start advertising willy-nilly all over the web? And remember, unlike organic specialty farmers whose products tend not to venture beyond a certain distance from where it's grown, pickup winders advertising on the web have essentially the entire world as their competition.

[Zhangliqun]

Which would be better for your own bottom line: to have thousands of homebrew competitors out there putting out crap, or thousands (or even just hundreds) putting out high-quality pu's?

Brand recognition should be fine because the established players don't have "Generic Handwound Pickup Maker" on their logos, they have their established names and therefore are unlikely to be confused with everyone else.

The ebay super-cheapies are going to be bought 99% by kids with very little income of their own who can't afford a serious boutique-bucker anyway and wouldn't be able to tell/appreciate the difference. By the time they can afford one, they will already have been asking the experienced players who's got the goods and who doesn't, will likely have tried some out, and will very shortly thereafter come right to the doors of the serious winders.

In other words, I just don't see the problem here.

[Satamax]

once the market gets cluttered with a wide range of build-quality - all claiming to be "handwound" - what happens to the brand recognition of those who have been doing it right for years when the johnny-come-latelys start advertising willy-nilly all over the web? And remember, unlike organic specialty farmers whose products tend not to venture beyond a certain distance from where it's grown, pickup winders advertising on the web have essentially the entire world as their competition.

Well, the trick is to market a product under another name, meaning the same, may be a made up word or brand which can be trademarked that's teh rules of marketing.

[Spence]

I suppose my gripe with these things is the dumming down of a quality product by people undervaluing their own work. Say for example this guy is really making handwound pickups and they really sound good, it makes it almost impossible for anyone to make a profit. A lot of you guys have no idea how expensive it is to make pickups here in the UK. I have looked into the cost of making a pickup like his P90 with coil tap, ebay and paypal fees and the sums don't add up.
If they are not handwound people will eventually get the idea that there's nothing to shout about and therefore keep lining the pockets of non-handwound pickup makers. Well hell, I can import pickups from China and make a living but I care about the reputation of 'handwound'.
It is true that my stuff doesn't tend to be sold on unless it's in a vintage guitar that was robbed of it's genuine parts and a few pickups turn up on ebay as genuine originals. He's not threatening my business but I have already heared people saying that they have compared GFS to handwound and seen no difference. It makes me wonder what their experience with 'handwound' has been. If they're buying stuff like GFS it makes sense that their budget for handwound was similar to the stuff that Crumbhorn is selling.
What lit my fire about handwound pickups was all the years that I spent listening to sterile pickups that were supposedly better than the old handwound pickups. I will defend superior products as long as I've still got a hole in my ass and I will defend fair pricing and I will defend honor and honesty in business.

[Pep]

I will defend superior products as long as I've still got a hole in my ass and I will defend fair pricing and I will defend honor and honesty in business.

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