Another Dickhead

[David Schwab]

Taking other maker's pickups apart is a useful exercise IMHO. It's an important part of learning how to wind pickups.

That's how Duncan did it.

[bob p]

If price is their only concern, they are beginners or otherwise so ignorant about pickups that they wouldn't buy from you or me under any circumstances. If there was no internet, they would just stick with the stock pu's, no matter how bad. Beginners and the tone-deaf and the terminally cheap have never been the bread-and-butter demographic for folks like us and never will be. So we've lost nothing.

you don't NEED the internet, though it is certainly helpful. i had Seymour Duncan rewind a set of P-Bass pickups for me in the 1970s while he was still a small time operator. The serial number on the sticker is about 1900 or so. He managed to get by without the internet -- the only way that I found him was through a little 3-line classified ad in the back of GP magazine. The rewinds cost $35 on my stock P-Bass pickups. Nobody had ever heard of this guy, so I paid my money and took my chances. The result? He did a wonderful job on my pickups, and 30 years later other bass players still tell me how good my P-Bass sounds when they play it. The rewind cost me all of $35 from a guy working at home. Look at him today.

When all is said and done, if someone wants to make it in an open competitive marketplace, their only weapons to compete are quality and price. A merchant/producer has to choose one or the other, make a commitment, and stand their ground. Oh, I guess that there's yet another way to deal with the situation -- someone who just can't compete effectively could always cry out for third party intervention to regulate the market and thereby impair competition -- but that's the kind of person that I would never consider buying from.

[Zhangliqun]

Oh, I guess that there's yet another way to deal with the situation -- someone who just can't compete effectively could always cry out for third party intervention to regulate the market and thereby impair competition -- but that's the kind of person that I would never consider buying from.

I think that sums up my view.

[David Schwab]

you don't NEED the internet, though it is certainly helpful. i had Seymour Duncan rewind a set of P-Bass pickups for me in the 1970s while he was still a small time operator. The serial number on the sticker is about 1900 or so. He managed to get by without the internet -- the only way that I found him was through a little 3-line classified ad in the back of GP magazine.

Me too! I had a hand written letter from Seymour when I enquired about him rewinding my Rickenbacker bass pickups. I wanted him to make stacked humbuckers, I got that idea from Les Paul Recording pickups. He said the Rick pickups were primitive in design, and offered to make some new pickups.

I ended up seeing another add in GP with pickups claiming to be the "cleanest sound around" and bought those instead.. those were Hi-A pickups, which later became known as Bartolini. Bill Bartolini called me up with a question about my order!

Boy, those were the days.. all kinds of good stuff in GP. Starz Guitarz, Boogie Bodies... Oh and some little company called DiMarzio...

[Possum]

GP

Here's a bit of Guitar Player trivia you probably never knew :-) As a budding cartoonist in '1972 or so I , yes me myself and Possum, had THE VERY FIRST CARTOON ever published in Guitar Player Magazine. I got $15, I GOT PAID FOR IT. How cool is that. I did about 3 more and then my gig ended :-<

Those old magazines are cool I still have all of them and looking at those old ads is really fun. Yeah those were the days, unfortunately alot of PAFS were destroyed by guys tearing them apart and "hot rodding" them with ceramic magnets and throwing the covers away....who knew? All the stuff I owned back then is now worth thousands, damn. I'm proud to be a "vintage" human myself, I'm worth thousands.....cough cough, choke choke....

[CL-10]

I would'nt be too concerned about the CHEAP prices. The price will define the product. A Hyundai will never be thought of in the same class as a Mercedes. I used to be a Jeweler- I could get really nice small Rubies and Saphires to replace lost settings, for as little as 10 cents. If I did'nt charge at least $20.00 for the stone- customers would believe I had gotten them a low quality stone. The same stone priced at $20.00 or more was always looked upon favorably by the customers and I received many thanks from them for finding such a nice stone!! These low-dollar pickups will go in Low-dollar guitars- if I needed a different pickup, I would never put them in my Gibson Les Pauls or my PRS personally. Why--because their price has defined them as being a low-end item , not a "Top of the Line" product. I won't lower the price on my pickups to compete with these guys as I don't want my product image lowered.

[Crumbhorn]

This is another Dickhead calling himself Crumbhorn selling 'handwound' pickups for next to nothing this time in the UK.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tele-steel-pole-...QQcmdZViewItem

I asked him once who was winding these pickups. The reply I got was : "I winds 'em myself and people thinks they're wicked !"

He went on to suggest I should buy some.

Dickhead !

Nice one Spence. If you want to quote me next time, please stick to what I actually said - and said with a Birmingham accent and not that of a supposedly thick yokel if I get your drift correctly.

First off, I can dispel the conjecture here, the pickups that I produce are genuinly hand wound (1 thumb, 1 forefinger and an electric motor) and assembled personally. I also machine up fair number of components from plastic and metal stock for some of the parts specific to my pickups. The trading standards people are welcome to drop in for a coffee.

The rest of the components come from the same sources as the majority of pickup makers here, so the only difference is in what I charge for putting it all together.

Lets dispel some of the mystery surrounding costs. I am new/small fish in a big pond, I have to keep costs down and Ebay is a relatively cheap and efficient marketing tool. I buy parts in the largest bulk that I can afford, use the $ exhange rate to my advantage, zero scrap and have made my own jigs and tools to take time out of the process. Selling through ebay also keeps me on my toes as far as quality is concerned and I do sell to players with expectations as high as those that they would hold for far more expensive pickups. A crap pickup sounds crap irrespective of how much it costs.

Selling prices. I'll rattle your cage again. £25 to £45 (single coil at one end, humbucker at the other) is enough to pay for a pickup. How does some young aspiring musician or enthusiastic kid find £80 a pop to buy a pickup to upgrade his Jap copy?

I could do with jacking my prices up a bit, but I'm doing OK and enjoy it. It's great to hear from customers that I've managed to transform a so-so guitar into one that they can't put down and they're making music.

Your gripe seems to stem from the argument that it's a stable market, w'ere all making a mint, how dare some whippersnapper come along and rock the boat? I'm sure your products are very good as I am sure mine are, but we both are operating in different areas of a large market with our own individual approaches.

Surely such diversity is no threat to you if you have faith in your product beyond it being just a commodity?

[bob p]

Hmmm. It seems that using the internet to bash someone in abstentia only works for so long.

Now that we've heard both sides of the story, why don't you guys just get back to winding, and compete with each other in the marketplace instead of flaming each other in the forums? Most of us don't really care about the details of what anyone said or didn't say to anyone else -- that kind of stuff all ends up soundling like whining.

If you both want to win this competition, both of you should put your nose to the grindstone and produce a better product than the other guy at a price that the market is willing to pay. THAT is how you kick the other guy's ass - you take away his customers. You can't win this kind of contest by typing. The winner will spend more time winding pickups and less time whining about them.

[Spence]

Crumbhorn, I stand by the quote I gave because I did ask you that question and you did give that reply.

I'm happy to see people making pickups and being able to sell them too otherwise I'd have never given so much advice on this and the previous forum. You, on the other hand have had no input on this forum.

It's true that you are I are not in competition with each other and I have no problem with you creating your niche in the market place. My problem with you is you're clearly undervaluing your own work if you are making your own pickups.

[Plectrum]

I have to say, I don't really see what the problem is.
This is a capitalist society, and the fundamental element of this, is that continued existance in the market is somewhat like a darwinian selection system.
It's hard, but inescapable.

To play devils advocate: You are producing a product that was fundamentaly developed by someone else, (and humbuckers - from an idea that was already being used in circuit design). So I think it's fair to say (as someone implied earlier) to a layman, you "jumped on the bandwagon" yourself.

The pressure here, is what makes capitalism function. People almost *allways* find a way to do things cheaper.

Edit:
Oops, I just *properly* read Bob P's post and noticed a similarity, sorry. Chalk this one down to affirmation.

[Spence]

Bearing in mind your very recent membership of this forum ie. just after crumbhorn's recent membership it looks like you just jumped on the band wagon.

For sure it's a Capatalist society and like I said, I haven't got a problem with him carving his own niche.

[Plectrum]

Bearing in mind your very recent membership of this forum ie. just after crumbhorn's recent membership it looks like you just jumped on the band wagon.

I'm not quite sure of the line of logic of this. Are you?
I thought you had started this thread in order to discuss it. Silly me.

I think you may have a problem in business though, regarding your math: 6 comes before 14 - as in the date I joined compared to his...

[Phil m]

I like Crumbhorn's attitute. Nothing wrong with selling a pickup cheaper. There's way too many pickup snobs over here.

[Spence]

Whatever.

You're contribution is noted and filed.

[Plectrum]

I like Crumbhorn's attitute. Nothing wrong with selling a pickup cheaper. There's way too many pickup snobs over here.

Well, I only wind the odd one every now and then, for myself. Did the first one (stock output, alnico5 strat) in 1989, stuck the bobbin to a bent-coat-hanger "handle", and made a wooden holder. hehe. The flatwork was from an old, dead charvel single I got in the US which luckily had a hole dead-centre, which allowed the coat-hanger through. Took me 3 or 4 "evenings".
Really nice to find a forum though.