Cream "Gibson" Color Survey?

[Possum]

....

They were bright red of course, see????

[cryptozoo]

Still not understanding what this is for... is it for bobbin color or pickguards, pickup surrounds, etc?

[JGundry]

Yeah that looks better. Photoshop tends to dump alot of red in images by itself, I had to deal with that in album cover work. Say, what do prepress guys use for color matching monitors these days? I still have my Lacie press monitor, big heavy monster. These LED monitors seem totally unsuitable for that kind of work maybe. Before I bailed out of design I would do the majority of built layers on the G5 then put it on system 9 with calibrated monitor. Of course it would crash every hour or so

Jon, can't post color chips or we'd give away who makes it...there are several ready made colors that are good....

I don't need to know who makes it I just want to see a side by side, same photo, same set etc.. comparison with a real cream PAF bobbin. Obscure any type that might be on the swatch. Easy. Finding a good original cream PAF to do the side by side in person comparison, maybe not so easy.

This Zebra pickup is going to a color matcher to be scanned. What I have is almost dead on but I would rather have a it custom matched.

They now have virtual press check systems. It is a closed calibrated system that I think needs a T1 line?

If you are white balancing off the slugs you are taking too much yellow out. Also there might be a flesh colored reflection of my hand tripping the shutter in the slugs. That would skew any white balance. To accurately white balance you really need to do it from a calibrated grey if you are doing a one sample white balance.

[David Schwab]

Say, what do prepress guys use for color matching monitors these days? I still have my Lacie press monitor, big heavy monster. These LED monitors seem totally unsuitable for that kind of work maybe. Before I bailed out of design I would do the majority of built layers on the G5 then put it on system 9 with calibrated monitor. Of course it would crash every hour or so

I used one of those big ass LaCie monitors at my last job. I used to calibrate them by eye really... they were too cheap to get a calibration setup, but since we also had the press right there I was able to get a very good match.

The display color calibration control panel in OS X works very well, even on LED displays.

From what I understand, a lot of the LED monitors are self calibrating.. at least the Apple ones. Then I guess you can tweak them in the control panel and save that profile and use that in Photoshop. That's what I do.

[David Schwab]

If you are white balancing off the slugs you are taking too much yellow out. Also there might be a flesh colored reflection of my hand tripping the shutter in the slugs. That would skew any white balance. To accurately white balance you really need to do it from a calibrated grey if you are doing a one sample white balance.

I was using the slugs as neutral gray, but I honestly didn't spend any time on it and it is a bit desaturated looking. I think the original is better. You need to have a neutral gray swatch in the photo next to the pickup for that to work well.

I often like to find a metallic object in a scene that needs balancing and use that for gray. If it works, you know it. If not then everything turns blue!

My personal favorite way to color correct is in CMYK using the channel mixer.

[JGundry]

Possum this is your sample right, against a OTP ring? Bad color correction and I'm sure not white balanced but it does match an OTP ring pretty well. I have two sets of OTP ring on two guitars. They are great but both of my sets are two different shades. Neither shade is good match to the Zebra PAF I have here. The OTP stuff is hand aged and very well at that but with that you get variation. Also the OTP rings are lighter in color than the Zebra which may be intentional. The plastic ages differently on the same guitar. Just as an example swatches #6 and #7 are the pickguard and treble ring off a 1968/69' small headstock Les Paul. I have a set of OTP Zebra pickups here and that cream is way darker than the rings. I think the best approach is probably to use an original, in hand, PAF cream bobbin that you like as reference.

[Spence]

That photo is giving me pink eye too....
Something is a little skewy here, your white highlights everywhere in that image are real yellow heavy, your lighting appears to be creme
Another problem, here is a real '59 pickup, note that the two bobbins aren't the same color. ClownLuthier found stock color butyrate samples that hit some vintage bobbin creme colors on the nose, no color mixing required....
So are you trying to say there is only one correct color, or are you testing to find out who among us are color blind and obvious Klingon infiltrators

Everyone has their own view of the right shade so you'll never please everyone.
The thing to do is make sure that your all your plastic parts either look new or old and in keeping with real examples.
On my computer, all those colour swatches look wrong so I'd rather not comment on them other than to say that Possum's photo looks right on my computer.
A

[JGundry]

Spence I would rather not comment but I will say that you need to practice your no commenting technique. That's all I'm not going to say about that.

Spence I would expect that you might not have a properly color corrected monitor etc. not having a professional background in the field. But I can assure you the samples are properly color corrected and that the Possum swatch is almost certainly much bluer than it should be as far as the color balance goes for that image.

I do agree this is one of those things that you have to go with what you like and that a good in hand reference is the best approach for a color match.

For anyone interested the vintage plastic is #6 (Treble ring 68' LP, vintage), #7 (pickguard 68' LP, same guitar), #9 (52' LP pickguard), #4 (NOS pickguard material from a old Gibson employee's stash, same material you would find on a vintage LP but not faded yet).

The double cream PAF is a pickup I repaired and it had been covered, untouched, prior to the repair. I will take some other photos of it. It is a good example of what pristine PAF bobbins look like.

[David Schwab]

On my computer, all those colour swatches look wrong so I'd rather not comment on them other than to say that Possum's photo looks right on my computer.

That's the problem with viewing photos on computers. They all look different. Suffice it to say if one has never adjusted the color on their computer it will be very wrong right from the factory, even on Macs which are closer to the mark than PCs.

I think Possum's last photo was too green, so here it is with the white point more balanced.

You can really see that the two bobbins are a different shade now.

[RedHouse]

David, what ya playing at that particular moment in time, do you recall?

[JGundry]

That's the problem with viewing photos on computers. They all look different. Suffice it to say if one has never adjusted the color on their computer it will be very wrong right from the factory, even on Macs which are closer to the mark than PCs.

I think Possum's last photo was too green, so here it is with the white point more balanced.

You can really see that the two bobbins are a different shade now.

There is another problem. If the photo that you thought was too green was shot under florescent light you will never get a correct color out of it. You can neutralize the green but florescent is not a full spectrum light source. There are huge peaks and troughs in the florescent spectral chart that just will not allow for a full spectrum image.

Studio flash under controlled lighting is the best way to shoot this. Tungsten will work but it changes color temperature as the bulbs age and heat up. Flash is best which is how I shot the swatches.

There is one important thing that has not been mentioned. Since this is the internet mostly likely all of the color is indexed so there is a huge drop in the color resolution. There are nuances that we are not seeing because of this.

[David Schwab]

David, what ya playing at that particular moment in time, do you recall?

Well it looks like I was playing with a pick which I only do on a few songs, and I'm looking at lyrics on the floor! So it was probably Rebel Yell by Billy Idol, which I sing. That was our first gig. We just had our second this past weekend. It's a cover band, but we have fun.

[RedHouse]

Well it looks like I was playing with a pick which I only do on a few songs, and I'm looking at lyrics on the floor! So it was probably Rebel Yell by Billy Idol, which I sing. That was our first gig. We just had our second this past weekend. It's a cover band, but we have fun.

...In the midnite hour, she cried more, more, more...

Goodonya David.

[Possum]

...

I would still like to see the Throbak bobbins put side by side with the SL and BK bobbins, they still look awful grey to me. I don't see the reason for so much effort at the creme color, the sample in the last shot is good enough for me. Why go to the expense of making sure your color has dirt and nicotine elements added? I doubt that color was an actual "mix" it was probably just uncolored plastic stock, maybe?

[JGundry]

I have access to a zebra PAF that has been covered forever so I think I might as well get a color match from it. If I want to age it after the fact that can always be done. A custom color match is only a couple of hundred dollars. I just want to make sure I'm getting the best match I can. But I really don't think there is 1 right color. The vintage plastic shots show that.