OTPG -what is that?

[David Schwab]

so I found a sound clip of a guy playing a Zeppelin riff on one of these bridge pickups. Well, his playing could do the Page thing, but the pickup had zero PAF qualities, there was simply nothing there.

I bet you if Page played that guitar it would sound like Page.

And what song was it?

He didn't use LPs on all that much. Like what guitar was used on Communication Breakdown? Or Whole Lotta Love? Stairway? Wasn't a Paul or PAFs.

[Possum]

Yes he used a tele, disc one of that BBC is when he had a tele. If you have an ear for it, listen to his double neck guitar, those are TTops, yeah he gets great tones out of them but they don't sound like PAF's if you listen close enough, they are more steely and bright, and if you know those pickups inside and out you know the design details that made them sound that way. In studying PAF's I also studied what came right after. I"m not saying an artist doesn't sound like himself on other guitars, I'm saying PAF's ARE THE SHIT for me, and the guys who used them in their early guitars sounded better to me than their later guitars. Its my personal opinion and why I devote so much time to research on getting things right, its called LOVE ;-) Sleep time for me...

[Bill M]

No not him, I think I know who you mean. One of the best Page tone references I've found, an MLP guy turned me onto, is BBC Live Sessions on disc two. Those are the original PAFs in Number One before the bridge died. They played at what sounds like lower volumes so you can really hear details in the pickup that get somewhat lost in concert footage. A gold mine for me....

Disc 2, track 3- Since I've been loving you. You are correct about lower volumes, especially the guitar volume rolled back and the tone rolled back slightly on this particular song. This is where good paf's shine in my opinion. Also his use of an ep-1 echoplex and the plexi's doesn't hurt either.

[RedHouse]

Disc 2, track 3- Since I've been loving you. You are correct about lower volumes, especially the guitar volume rolled back and the tone rolled back slightly on this particular song. This is where good paf's shine in my opinion. Also his use of an ep-1 echoplex and the plexi's doesn't hurt either.

BBC sessions was ok, maybe not the greatest example of Pagey's best tone, for example compare that track (BBC, Disc-2, track-3) with HTWWW Disc-1, track-6 ... waaaaay better tone IMHO.

BTW just to reference the time frame, Disc-2 on the BBC sessions was recorded at the Paris Theatre in London January 4th, 1971, the HTWWW track June 25th 1972 when he had a T-top in there.

Here's an opinion about the tone after the t-top went in:

"May/June 1972
The white PAF is replaced with what was believed to have been a double black T-Top after the '72 Australian tour. The chrome covered pickup was in place for the 2 warmup gigs in May '72 just prior to the start of the '72 US Tour in June. There's often a hype found on the internet about the T-Top and how his tone became more nasally, particularly the middle position, depsite there being a hardly audible change in bootlegs from February '72 verus June '72. Granted it's not a scientific method of comparing tones, there's really no evidence of a tonal change. "

so IMHO his PAF's are only half the shit (neck pickup only) as I am of the opinion that the HTWWW track has way better tone, but that won't sell PAF's I suppose.

(BTW, he had T-tops in the EDS1275 lower half too)

[Possum]

I was purposefully looking for good recordings of the original pickups because they are also representative of a certain year, so those recordings are priceless. Even so you have to realize the engineers messed with the EQ and when they did get loud it all gets compressed sounding, done of tube gear etc., not really what you'd hear if you'd personally been there. But there's plenty of meat for research. Live at the Royal Albert Hall is the other good reference but the audio isn't as useful as the low volume stuff. Of course the TTop changed the middle position tone, brighter bridge pickup cleans up the middle pos. and has the most effect there anyway.

[JGundry]

Page's Les Paul tone on the BBC recording is great but it is heavily colored by a Tone Bender. You get a snarly, blatty treble bite from it that you can hear in that recording. It is really not the best PAF reference if we are talking about a guitar/amp only set-up.

[Possum]

There are many many spots in those songs where he played totally clean, even with the pedal on it is one of the most valuable recordings to me as a pickup maker. Listen the solo work with volume pot turned back, there's several of those. The Albert Hall stuff is useful for listening to the neck pickup, there's one spot where he turned vol pot way back, those are some of the biggest clues.....

[Possum]

I think you're confused, Disc two was recorded in '71, the info I found it that he using the Tonbender up to '69, except a rare appearance in '71, but not on the BBC show. Disc one was earlier and he was using he tele and the pedal. There is one song on disc two where it sounds like he punches an over drive, along with a delay effect, but the rest to me sound pretty much amp and guitar. I haven't listened to disc 1, but just did now and its super obvious he's using a fuzz tone, those recordings are super clear, not very nice tones in my opinion. Here's info on the pedal, this is a good reference site BTW:
http://wholelottaled.webs.com/effects.htm

[Burny123]

When I first asked about OTPG´pickups, was it because they have the looks, are made the same way, and when possible from the same material as the original PAF´s. Maybe they also sounds like PAF´s . But as we know now there is no specific well defined PAF´sound. So why is the look so important?

I'm building a replica Les Paul. I have been searching for the right wood for years, old light Honduras, Christ veneer, brazil rosewood, eastern marble etc. I have bought hardware, when the price was right, the same with the plastic parts, but I don't want to pay 1000 $ for a black backplate, or a pickguard, so some parts I buy from the repro market or make the parts myself. So now we come to the pickups. I could use original PAF´s, but they are so valuable now, that it is ridiculous. They don't sounds better than many of the PAF´s that members here are making, and I do think they belongs in original guitars!
So the next best thing is PAF replicas that looks exactly like the old PAF´s and (maybe) sounds good in this particular guitar. That is why there is a market for these PAF clones, but because they have the looks, it doesn't make them the best sounding pickups on earth.

[JGundry]

There are many many spots in those songs where he played totally clean, even with the pedal on it is one of the most valuable recordings to me as a pickup maker. Listen the solo work with volume pot turned back, there's several of those. The Albert Hall stuff is useful for listening to the neck pickup, there's one spot where he turned vol pot way back, those are some of the biggest clues.....

No confusion on this Dave. As you would say many hours of listening and research went into this on my part. The Tone Bender is integral enough to Page's tone the he even demos it in It Might Get Loud and yes he is playing it with a Les Paul. Pages uses and used the Tone Bender with a Les Paul to 71' and beyond. The pedal cleans up very well when you roll the volume back. His Tone Bender MKII Professional was custom made for him and has a better treble response than the stock version of the pedal. There is even and old ad in which you are notified to ask for the Jimmy Page Tone Bender if you want his tone. Page had custom gear early on. The RAH tone is also a HiWatt modified for Page. Put all of that together and you get a tone that is very colored by the gear. PAF's yes but a lot of treble is coming from the gear in those performances.

[David Schwab]

Here's info on the pedal, this is a good reference site BTW:
Effects - Whole Lotta Led

Check out the Rickenbacker cabs!



I used to have one of these:

[RedHouse]

Check out the Rickenbacker cabs!

Not to mention that (fashionable?) "Matrix" look with the overcoat going on there

[Dave Kerr]

One of what? A prissy tambourine shaking lead singer?

[David Schwab]

One of what? A prissy tambourine shaking lead singer?

The Univox UX1505 amp, silly.

[RedHouse]

One of what? A prissy tambourine shaking lead singer?

Thanks Dave, I just blew Pepsi out my nose when I read that.
(was taking a drink as I read your post)