OTPG -what is that?

[RedHouse]

...all of that together and you get a tone that is very colored by the gear...

Which is closer to the bone than most people like to admit. People are more comfortable believing Page plugged that lester straight in.

He used whatever inspired him at the moment, here's one example from the horse's mouth, many folks would say the main riff in "How Many More Times" is that tonebender, but...

(Guitar World 1998) "I don't remember what (amp) I used but curiously I do remember using the (mixing) board to overdrive a Leslie cabinet, it doesn't sound like a Leslie because I wasn't employing the rotating speakers....The guitar was going through the board into an amplifier which was driving the Leslie"

Black Dog is also a board-derrived fuzztone.

[big_teee]

YouTube - Led Zeppelin-I Can't Quit You Babe
Someone tell me what is in the signal path, in this song.
The intro when he's on the neck pickup is my favorite page tone.
That's what the blues is supposed to sound like.
The neck pickup is covered, the bridge is an uncovered white pickup?
Terry

[RedHouse]

YouTube - Led Zeppelin-I Can't Quit You Babe
Someone tell me what is in the signal path, in this song.
The intro when he's on the neck pickup is my favorite page tone.
That's what the blues is supposed to sound like.
The neck pickup is covered, the bridge is an uncovered white pickup?
Terry

Those are the original PAF's.

That video clip is from the un-named DVD set that came out same time as the 3-CD "How The West Was Won". If you watch the video there is a good shot of the floor at about 4:06 into the song, you can see that he has only a Wah and two footswitches taped to the floor, no tonebender.

It's most likely the EP2 Echoplex lending overdrive to the tone.

[big_teee]

Those are the original PAF's.

That video clip is from the un-named DVD set that came out same time as the 3-CD "How The West Was Won". If you watch the video there is a good shot of the floor at about 4:06 into the song, you can see that he has only a Wah and two footswitches taped to the floor, no tonebender.

It's most likely the EP2 Echoplex lending overdrive to the tone.

The Marshall's don't sound too shabby either.
I wonder what models and vintage the Marshall's are?
Terry

[David Schwab]

The Marshall's don't sound too shabby either.
I wonder what models and vintage the Marshall's are?
Terry

Amps - Whole Lotta Led

[RedHouse]

Not marshalls that day, looks like a pair of Hiwatts:



He was also doing the top-wrap on the tailpiece, there is some good close-up shots in the Dazed and Confused track from same show.

It's like the only thing that was consistant over the years was the old "100" cabs and a Les Paul (and him of course) and maybe the echoplex, time and time again you can see pics of him using different amp heads anyway.

He used a couple Marshall PA heads at the '69 Bath Music Festival, in '69 at Olympic Studios there is a shot of him with an old 100w (12xxxx series) Super Lead (large box/small logo) and the Hiwatts in '69 in Vancouver and RAH in '70 and in Texas and the '70 Bath Music Festival. Finally by '71 he started using both on stage, by '73 the Hiwatts were gone and the Marshalls were the standard.

So the guitars have changed (Tele/Les Paul Custom/59 Les Paul), the pickups have changed (PAF/T-tops) and the amps have changed (Vox/Marshall/Hiwatt) and so it begs the question ...where is "that" Jimmy Page "PAF" tone comming from?.

[David Schwab]

Not marshalls that day, looks like a pair of Hiwatts:

Yep.

[Mike Sulzer]

YouTube - Led Zeppelin-I Can't Quit You Babe
Someone tell me what is in the signal path, in this song.
The intro when he's on the neck pickup is my favorite page tone.
That's what the blues is supposed to sound like.
The neck pickup is covered, the bridge is an uncovered white pickup?
Terry

For amazing blues tone, I like this one most:
YouTube - Led Zeppelin-Since I've Been Loving You

[big_teee]

He was also doing the top-wrap on the tailpiece, there is some good close-up shots in the Dazed and Confused track from same show.

Did they have to modify the stoptail any to do the topwrap?
Everything still goes on the same way I guess?
That probably would help on tone and sustain!
Terry

[MacLoud]

Hi Gentlemen
Trying to duplicate Mr Page's PAF tone played through Marshalls and Hiwatts + Tonebenders + echo units is possibly chasing the mythical end of the rainbow. It is masked or clouded by amp distortion and toys.
How about PAF tone as exemplified by the dot neck 335 used by Mr BB King on live at the Regal. This is possibly a prime example of pure PAF tone. Almost clean but not overly driven. Just a lovely "clonky" sound on the lower strings and bite on the higher notes.

There must be other examples that I am unaware of, that the clever chaps here can mention as illustrations of good PAF tone that do not rely on heavy distortion.

Also I concur with Possum about Albert's tone, it changed for the worse. Just listen to the live at the Fillmore gigs for the sound that defines Mr A King. Nobody has done that minimalistic thing better than him.
Regards
MacLoud

[big_teee]

Page and Zeppelin Sure more fun to listen to.
Terry

[RedHouse]

...Trying to duplicate Mr Page's PAF tone played through Marshalls and Hiwatts + Tonebenders + echo units is possibly chasing the mythical end of the rainbow. It is masked or clouded by amp distortion and toys.
...

Pretty obvious that's what all these posts have been saying isn't it?

[RedHouse]

No you just put the strings in backwards and go over the top.

It only helps if you have a high angle neck joint. With high angle neck joint and the stop tail screwed down all the way the lower strings tend to break-over the bridge at too great an angle which gives you that slightly out-of-tune "bouwwngggg" sound if you hit the string too hard, wrapping over the top stops that. Hear-say has it that Duane Allman used to do the over-wrap.

Some people try to just raise the studs to get a better angle but that starts to suck-away sustain, those studs need to be down tight against their bushings.

I solved the problem on my R9 with a different approach, I made some stainless steel spacers of the right size and placed them under the stud between it and the bushing and then was able to tighten down the studs and still have the optimum break-over angle while still keeping the connection tight for maximum transfer. Dan Erlewine has some good pointers in his book about why you want good transfer in this area.

[RedHouse]

For amazing blues tone, I like this one most:
YouTube - Led Zeppelin-Since I've Been Loving You

I like that one very much too Mike.

In fact you may notice a resemblance to this frame in that video ...and my avitar.
(avitar/avatar?)

It's a great example of how he had his neck pickup set (well down below the ring on bass side, poles up) which leads me to believe that story from Seymour Duncan about the neck pickup being high DCR. You'd certainly want to back-it-off like that, and raise the poles if it was strong and bassy sounding.

I have tried winding some hotter like that then setting the pickup up that way but didn't quite get a thrill out of it, you still need the wood to get the tone.
(wood is something that continually gets back-burnered on this forum, but well, it is about pickups isn't it)

[Mike Sulzer]

I like that one very much too Mike.

In fact you may notice a resemblance to this frame in that video ...and my avitar.
(avitar/avatar?)

It's a great example of how he had his neck pickup set (well down below the ring on bass side, poles up) which leads me to believe that story from Seymour Duncan about the neck pickup being high DCR. You'd certainly want to back-it-off like that, and raise the poles if it was strong and bassy sounding.

I have tried winding some hotter like that then setting the pickup up that way but didn't quite get a thrill out of it, you still need the wood to get the tone.
(wood is something that continually gets back-burnered on this forum, but well, it is about pickups isn't it)

No, I did not notice either, that is, what your avatar is, or how the pickup is set. But you can see how it is set even in your avatar once you know what to look for! Slanting the neck pickup has always seemed like such a natural thing to do, but not so many do. Raising the screws emphasizes one coil over the other, allowing more high harmonics. It is just a mini-tutuorial on how to make your neck pickup sound better defined.