OTPG -what is that?

[fieldwrangler]

Roger Rossmeisl actually made the rosewood tele for George. I knew someone that had one of those many years ago. It was a great sounding guitar, much fatter sounding than most Teles.

My first "good" guitar was a rosewood Tele that my parents got for me in 1969. I then proceeded to use it to learn how to refret, wind pickups, etc., thereby insuring that I wouldn't be tempted to sell it seeing as how I had stomped out most of its market value.

Because of this, I still have it. And it's true, it's a much fatter than usual Tele sound; much of which seems like it's related to the oily character of the rosewood.

Bob Palmieri

[Rick Turner]

Bob, I think a lot of the resins and oil would be pretty hard by now, and with acoustic guitars, what you get from the various rosewoods is a glassier and at the same time, more reverberant sound than you get with other woods. I think the fatness you're hearing is because of less damping; your rosewood probably has a much higher Q than you get with swamp ash, alder, basswood, or any of the other usual suspects in the Tele world.

[David Schwab]

My first "good" guitar was a rosewood Tele that my parents got for me in 1969. I then proceeded to use it to learn how to refret, wind pickups, etc., thereby insuring that I wouldn't be tempted to sell it seeing as how I had stomped out most of its market value.

Because of this, I still have it. And it's true, it's a much fatter than usual Tele sound; much of which seems like it's related to the oily character of the rosewood.

Don't you love thinking about what some instrument you modded would be worth now stock?

This is one of mine, in its current condition.



It's a '74 4001. Now with larger frets, a new paint job and a big hole where I stuck a Gibson EB-0 pickup. Oh yeah, and I filled in where the bridge was and instaled a Badass II.

I'm going to restore it to stock and make it a Jetglo.

[Rick Turner]

There sure is a lot of power in myth, marketing, mystery, and mouthing off, especially here on the Internet.

This thread is a perfect example of guerilla marketing, if I ever saw one. All you have to do these days is get a few scattered friends to start chatting things up on a forum, and then next thing you know, you've got the Holy Grail as touched by Sir Launcelot himself...

Can't wait to see what the flavor of the month is at this time next year...

Seymour once had visitors coming from Japan, so he put some yellow dye of varying strength in jars of water, and dropped a humbucker into each one. He put labels on the jars...Jimmy Page Piss, Jeff Beck Piss, Billy Gibbons Piss, etc. Seymour just put them up on a shelf, and when the folks came into the Duncan Custom Shop, he didn't say anything. One of the gents noticed, and excitedly pointed out the jars to his associates. Seymour just smiled and nodded.

[RedHouse]

There sure is a lot of power in myth, marketing, mystery, and mouthing off, especially here on the Internet..

Amen to that.

[fieldwrangler]

Rick -

I think you're right about this; I'm gonna listen later this week with these concepts in mind. However the idea of "glassier" isn't sticking out in my memory at the moment.

In fact, if I do figure out how to record & post some samples before I leave for the west coast later this week I'll include the Rosewood Tele in the mix, 'specially seeing as how I haven't really played it for awhile.

Bob Palmieri

[Rick Turner]

Has it occurred to anyone here that this whole thing is veering dangerously close to illegal forgery?

It would not be the first time. I know that when I worked for Gibson from 1988 into 1993; two years of that working corporate in LA, I saw some pretty amazing forgeries made in the LA area being passed off as originals. At that point nobody was forging the pickups; PAFs...real ones...were around for under $300.00 a set, but slapped on a good fake Flying Vee or 'burst flame top LP, you had bucks worth working the sleaze factor for if that was your thing. One guy even found the tread rubber for the Vees that was dead nuts like original. Date coded pots and all were easy to find.

Frankly, I think "aging" and putting a PAF sticker on new-made pickups is just plain unethical. At the very least it invites unethical behaviour by the next customer in line and beyond. What's the chain of ownership to keep these from being sold to the unwary as being originals? Do you think the pickup business should abide by "caveat emptor"? I don't...

The mania for having a vintage guitar should be limited to having real vintage guitars. What's next? Gibson and Fender decals? Oh, I forgot, you can already get those...

This is bullshit.

[LtKojak]

The mania for having a vintage guitar should be limited to having real vintage guitars. What's next? Gibson and Fender decals? Oh, I forgot, you can already get those...

You forgot the chinese copies of every american guitar ever made too, but who's counting?

Anyway, the "Vintage Hype" (perceived value marketing) was created by George Gruhn. He funded the Guitar Player magazine at the very start and contributed with the "Vintage" Column. In so doing, he stablished himself as the "authority" of everything "Vintage".

I think he came up with the idea to help moving those old planks of wood nobody wanted at the time. I don't know if it was casual of if he was a genius.

Today, there's a whole industry worth billions solely based on "market hype", not only guitars, but also $ 150.00 20-feet guitar cables, $ 100.00 potentiometers, $ 60.00 capacitors and so on.

Good marketing plot, based on ignorance and gullibility! Darwin was wrong, the human race is NOT evoluting, but INVOLUTING.

I just can't wait for the Mayas prophecy to occur... 2012, here I come!

This is bullshit.

You got that right, Rick. Truer words were never spoken...

EDIT: look at the link to some Vintage madness...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220640894179

When I see somebody gave $ 12,099 for that old plank I just shake my head in disbelief...

[Sam Lee Guy]

Has it occurred to anyone here that this whole thing is veering dangerously close to illegal forgery?

It would not be the first time. I know that when I worked for Gibson from 1988 into 1993; two years of that working corporate in LA, I saw some pretty amazing forgeries made in the LA area being passed off as originals. At that point nobody was forging the pickups; PAFs...real ones...were around for under $300.00 a set, but slapped on a good fake Flying Vee or 'burst flame top LP, you had bucks worth working the sleaze factor for if that was your thing. One guy even found the tread rubber for the Vees that was dead nuts like original. Date coded pots and all were easy to find.

Frankly, I think "aging" and putting a PAF sticker on new-made pickups is just plain unethical. At the very least it invites unethical behaviour by the next customer in line and beyond. What's the chain of ownership to keep these from being sold to the unwary as being originals? Do you think the pickup business should abide by "caveat emptor"? I don't...

The mania for having a vintage guitar should be limited to having real vintage guitars. What's next? Gibson and Fender decals? Oh, I forgot, you can already get those...

This is bullshit.

The OTPG replica pickups have been around since 1984, and Guitar Trader already made PAFs in 1982.
If someone wants to behave unethically, they will do it with anything. They don't need top class replicas to sleeze money out of people and will buy the cheapest they can get . I personally don't think anyone should buy second hand pickups for more than the new price.

[David Schwab]

Today, there's a whole industry worth billions solely based on "market hype", not only guitars, but also $ 150.00 20-feet guitar cables, $ 100.00 potentiometers, $ 60.00 capacitors and so on.

"There's a sucker born every minute"

Good marketing plot, based on ignorance and gullibility! Darwin was wrong, the human race is NOT evoluting, but INVOLUTING.

No, we are Devolving. We are Devo!

EDIT: look at the link to some Vintage madness...

1951 Fender Nocaster Telecaster BarnFind Vintage Guitar - eBay (item 220640894179 end time Jul-30-10 19:08:54 PDT)

When I see somebody gave $ 12,099 for that old plank I just shake my head in disbelief...

I guess now that the old guitars are hard to get, because of collectors, any old crap is worth something?

The thing that really makes me sick is when you see people take a perfectly good instrument and "part it out" to make more money off the parts. I saw someone do that to a nice old Rick bass once. Greed is rampant and everyone wants to get rich quick.

[Mike Sulzer]

You got that right, Rick. Truer words were never spoken...

There is something about a fool and his money, I forget what. But hype is far worse when it leaks into technical discussions.

[LtKojak]

There is something about a fool and his money, I forget what.

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

But hype is far worse when it leaks into technical discussions.

Well, I think you certainly do your part here for that doesn't occur, right?

[Rick Turner]

Well, Sam, I hope you're being well rewarded for flogging these pickups.

Whether or not forgeries have been done in the past, and whether or not you think "second hand" anything should be worth a lot, the unethical and sometimes flat out illegal forgery business is just bullshit.

Also, George Gruhn did not invent the vintage business anymore than Sotheby's invented the old masters art market or the antique furniture market or Hennings invented the vintage automobile collecting market. Sure, George was there, sure he wrote a lot for Guitar Player, but there was no payout to GP by George. Quite the reverse, in fact. George gets paid to write articles. I've written and been a columnist for Guitar Player and Bass Player since 1972; I know what goes on in the magazine biz.

[big_teee]

Unless sold for an original, its just an aged copy.
I don't see any harm unless you are trying to sell as an original.
After all if you make a copy of any of the original pickups, Gibson, fender, gretsch, etc.
Aren't we all forgers to a degree?
Just a question, don't shoot the piano player!!!
Terry

[Rick Turner]

We're not forgers if we proudly put our own names on our products and state clearly what they are, and even make (dare I say it) improvements to the original designs, none of which should be considered in the same light as the two tablets of stone on which the 10 Commandments were etched...by someone or some power...

I make a couple of deeply vintage inspired products...my horseshoe pickup which anybody with eyes could see is NOT an original Rickenbacher pickup by any stretch of the imagination...and I'm now making slope shouldered "jumbo"/dreadnoughts that are very close to...but are updated versions of 1943 Gibson J-45s. In both cases I've made what I believe are either significant improvements based on what we have learned over 50 or more years of this stuff, or I have changed some aspects to suit modern materials. In both cases, I'm doing my best to understand the issues of design which are most important to tone while also understanding the limitations of past materials, budgetary considerations, etc.

I strongly believe that we can build upon the past without ripping it...or the companies who made the originals...off.