Pickup mounting holes - threads

[belwar]

I'm strong like dumptruck, smart like bowlingball.

[JGundry]

By the way is your metal acid stain ferric chloride?

Nevermind. MEK stains.

[Sweetfinger]

yeah, we don't play Lute's, we should be called Guitar'iers.

Even Guitar is a munge of a "Tar" which is a mid-eastern stringed intrument.

I always thought "guitar" was an etymological cousin to "Cittern". Here's what I found just now.
Guitar:
1621, ult. from Gk. kithara "cithara," a stringed musical instrument related to the lyre, perhaps from Pers. sihtar (see sitar); the name reached Eng. several times, including early 14c. giterne, in reference to various stringed, guitar-like instruments; the modern word is directly from Sp. guittara, from Arabic qitar, from the Gk.

[Rick Turner]

"tar" = string Persian and other middle eastern languages

as in: setar = six strings and yes, sitars have a lot more! The setar is a six stringed Persian instrument shaped like a figure 8 carved out of wood with a skin head. Look up Hossein Alizadeh.

And it gets confusing because there's also the middle eastern frame drum known as the "tar".

[David Schwab]

Here's what I found just now.
Guitar:
1621, ult. from Gk. kithara "cithara," a stringed musical instrument related to the lyre, perhaps from Pers. sihtar (see sitar); the name reached Eng. several times, including early 14c. giterne, in reference to various stringed, guitar-like instruments; the modern word is directly from Sp. guittara, from Arabic qitar, from the Gk.

Where did you get that? My Mac's built in dictionary says:

ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from Spanish guitarra (partly via French), from Greek kithara, denoting an instrument similar to the lyre.

I think "guitarra" is probably the Spanish version of the Persian word.

[RedHouse]

Yeah it's apparent that Guitar is a common name, used as a familiar reference used to include things alike, not so much a descriptive documentative term such as a latin/greek based name would be used to exclude things that appear similar.

[SkinnyWire]

Yeah, well, a lot of kids didn't see the sarcasm in "Spinal Tap" either, but it was there.

Look, I know full well that any change at all that you make in a pickup design changes "the sound", but I'm also reading a lot of overblown bullshit here on this forum. I'm reading stuff that would assess tone totally to pickups and ignore the most significant contributor to tone...the player's hands.

It's really plain to me that very few of you have spent much time in retail guitar repair. I was fortunate to be the head of the guitar repair department at Westwood Music in LA between 1989 and '91, I had the opportunity to be there in the back room and hear significant musicians play any guitars they picked up plugged into whatever amp was handy. I could easily tell within three notes whether Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, David Lindley, Dean Parks, Jerry Donahue, or a number of other guitar players was "in the house" without seeing them, without knowing what guitar they'd just happened to pick up, without knowing what amp they'd plugged into. Their personalities came out of their fingers...not the pickup(s) in whatever fucking guitar it was that they happened to pick up. I could tell within three notes who was outside my door. And it wasn't a pickup maker...

There's too much ego in this pickup biz. We're NOT the center of tone.

Sorry, guys (and you pretty much all are males here). It's not about you. It's about the guitar players... All we can do is help.

What the hell is this? This is a pickup maker's forum, so naturally folks tend to think what they do with regard to building pickups is important. There's BS here for sure, but I'll wager no more than on the average guitar or luthier's forum. I don't agree that it takes all the special parts and alloys to create "the tone", but I wouldn't take anything away from those who have dedicated blood/sweat/tears, and dollars to recreate something down to every detail. And what the hell does working in a retail guitar repair shop have to do with anything? You figure that because you can roll in here and drop a bunch of names that everyone should just roll over and wet themselves in awe of your knowledge and presence? That's the same sort of BS that you're calling out? Anyone can recognize a player by their style, but if I want to hear Clapton I want Gibson Clapton, not Strat Clapton ... personal choice but unquestionably different tones even though I'd recognize either one in a blind test.

Damn right is ain't about us. Anyone here with a sustainable business knows that and we don't need you to tell us. I'll never understand why people feel the need to roll into a site and crap in everybody's Wheaties. Very childish. There are some fine builders here just as passionate about their craft as you are. Share your knowledge and experience ... even share your opinions ... but how about doing it in a respectful manner.

[RedHouse]

So what happened to SkinnyWire's post?

[David Schwab]

So what happened to SkinnyWire's post?

I didn't like his attitude as it seemed he was picking a fight. We already went through this on two locked threads, so I deleted it.

It was also waaaay late into the thread. Sorry.

[RedHouse]

I didn't like his attitude as it seemed he was picking a fight. We already went through this on two locked threads, so I deleted it.

It was also waaaay late into the thread. Sorry.

Ahh, fair enough.

[SkinnyWire]

I wasn't picking a fight at all. I was calling out what I thought was a disrespectful, rude, and ignorant attack perpetrated for no apparent/good reason by a self-proclaimed big-shot. I think if you go over my history you'll find that while I haven't always agreed with folks, I don't pick fights and prolong pointless conversations. I therefore find even more disappointing your attitude toward my post versus the original. I didn't use foul language, whereas the original poster - who would appear to be well old enough to know better - laced his post with it. Your response is not at all what I would have expected from you from what I've gleaned of your nature over the years. Very disappointing indeed, your curious "policing" of threads.

[David Schwab]

I wasn't picking a fight at all. I was calling out what I thought was a disrespectful, rude, and ignorant attack perpetrated for no apparent/good reason by a self-proclaimed big-shot. I think if you go over my history you'll find that while I haven't always agreed with folks, I don't pick fights and prolong pointless conversations. I therefore find even more disappointing your attitude toward my post versus the original. I didn't use foul language, whereas the original poster - who would appear to be well old enough to know better - laced his post with it. Your response is not at all what I would have expected from you from what I've gleaned of your nature over the years. Very disappointing indeed, your curious "policing" of threads.

I'm sorry but I found that post pointless. I don't think Rick Turner is a "self-proclaimed big-shot", but he has a long history in the business. If Seymour or Bill Lawrence came here I'd treat them with the same respect.

Let's see how you started that post:

What the hell is this? This is a pickup maker's forum, so naturally folks tend to think what they do with regard to building pickups is important. There's BS here for sure, but I'll wager no more than on the average guitar or luthier's forum.

Rick makes pickups too. I'd wager he's been making them longer than you and I put together. There's also enough anecdotal evidence that supports that the same guitar when played by two different people will not sound the same. Some of the tone is the guitar, some is the pickups, and the big part is the player. If that were not true, then every one playing a Strat would sound the same.

That's been my experience. But I also don't agree that it's all the player as much as I don't agree that you can make a pickup that will make your guitar and YOU sound like your favorite vintage recording.

[Rick Turner]

OOOH, knickers in knots!

Sure, this is a pickup makers' forum. I just don't think that we're the center of the universe. I think that the guitar and bass players are the center of our particular universe. We serve them. We don't make them.

Just by the way of bona fides, yes, I have been winding pickups since 1968. Some of the pickups I've wound have helped establish certain artist's sounds, but that was by way of allowing the players to express themselves more easily than they'd experienced before. Still and all, the sound was there in their fingers; I just made pickups that got out of the way of that and didn't impede what they wanted to hear and express.

Some of y'all ought to think less about your own egos and more about those of your clients...

[SkinnyWire]

Let me put it this way then, and I'll leave this post behind for good. Your "police action" was gutless and a simple butt-kissing maneuver. I expected more from you. I expect nothing from the big-shot with little man's disease who, from his pictures, is apparently well old enough to know better.

[David Schwab]

Let me put it this way then, and I'll leave this post behind for good. Your "police action" was gutless and a simple butt-kissing maneuver. I expected more from you. I expect nothing from the big-shot with little man's disease who, from his pictures, is apparently well old enough to know better.

No, your post was annoying, and very late into the thread. After several threads had been closed due to arguing, and not just by me, I decided to side step that.

Now if you started off with a different tone, I would have left it. But it was argumentative. Just as this post of your is. You have a chip on your shoulder and are being insulting.

Explain to me why your post is needed in this discussion?