Pickup Parts quality

[Plucky]

small rolls:It can also sometimes be badly re-spooled, resulting in tangling when it comes off.

Not sure if anyone else pointed this out(TLDR), but BAE sells smaller quantities that are possibly respooled...

[Plucky]

So who's that Canadian bass maker making his own bridges?

Electric bass?

[John Carlsen]

As much as I would love to have a garage full of tools with which to experiment on different designs, or a thriving pickup business that funds my R&D like some of you do, I can't have it because I can't just will it all into existence. I just want to be able to make a good pickup for my local customers and do the best with what I have. By the way, I live in a 1 bedroom apartment with my wife, so i don't even have a table saw to experiment on different designs, etc, blah, blah. I appreciate some of your positions and protective attitudes towards the "true" pickup building business, or whatever, but I'm just trying to be the best at what i do with the resources that I have. That is why I will never be a competitor in the pickup making world like Jason is, or Lindy Fralin is, but I will also never claim to do anything that is "magical" or whatever because i don't think it even exists outside of marketing ploys. I just want to make a good pickup. Most of us can wind a pickup at home that sounds better than what you get off the shelf at Guitar Center, isn't that something to be proud of? I don't really think that you need to be a thriving business to be able to share in and contribute to a great resource like this forum.

With all that said, I'm with you guys about all the marketing hype. All these guys selling their pickups for an obscenely large sum of money saying that they have this mojo or that mojo is really ridiculous, and I'm pretty confident in saying that they are not any better than what a lot of the guys on this forum can create. It seems like the guys who really do have something to brag about, don't need to. As far as the original topic goes, I would love to be able to buy from this company and that company who makes stuff for me, but I just can't, which is why I was asking about magnet quality, flatwork construction, etc, my $1300/month salary won't have it unfortunately! Besides, pickup building is not my endgame. I REALLY want to be able to build and repair guitars and basses, so the pickups thing was where I could get started in all that. when I have a garage, then I'll go for it some more. Most of my clientele have been friends at church and local guitar shops and I do it because it gives me something to work at that, ultimately, I CAN be proud of.

Jason, I got started on your book and it helped me a lot in my overall understanding. I respect what you do a lot and just wanted to say thanks. As far as the rest of you go, I've so appreciated all the help I've gotten from you in the past months. It has truly been inspiring to be a part of this forum...even though some threads go a little sour...

[David Schwab]

Ditto on the bad spooling, especially stew-mac. I wrote to them questioning the quality of the spooling, and they wrote back suggesting that I just wasn't winding correctly...

Stew-Mac doesn't re-spool that wire. They buy it from Schatten.

[David Schwab]

I am kind of with Rick T on this one- its a pickup makers forum not pickup winders...

I agree with both of you. One thing is that a lot of people who make pickups are just looking to make copies of Fender and Gibson styles. This makes sense from the point that a lot of the guitars out there use these form factors. Clearly you can still squeeze a lot of variety from these designs. In in those cases it makes sense to buy premade parts if you are sticking to traditional style pickups. When you want to get farther away from that, you have to make changes.

I find some of these form factors limiting, but a necessary evil if you want to make direct drop in replacements. But being that I make mostly bass pickups I couldn't find any parts that fit what I was making without a lot of modifications, except the plastic covers. So I have no choice but to make all the internal parts myself. But I got it down to a science and kind of enjoy it. Having custom injection molded parts would be nice however.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Not sure if anyone else pointed this out(TLDR), but BAE sells smaller quantities that are possibly respooled...

They do respool, at least that is what I gathered from an email correspondence I had with them. The quality of the respooling is far superior, though. It doesn't take much in terms of pinching on the spool to make for breakage, and that isn't even considering what the twisting/stretching can do to your overall quality control. The spooling from BAE is top notch.

[Manlius]

I dunno, this thread is kinda getting a little reactionary and off-spirited. First off, this is a business just as any other - if you have issues with competition or marketing, as in any business, it is up to you to persuade customers why your product is better. I don't think it is worthwhile to worry about others flowering marketing descriptions, rather focus on your own and how you can sell more product. This is a business, and even though you are a pickup "maker", you are a business person first, and you can't lose sight of that.

When any business industry expands there will be a natural increase of services serving said business. you see that with pickups now, and you have seen it in the past. Just drive by a manufacturing plant in your area and count how many stores, bars, hotels, or restaurants are in that area. Or better yet, if you are in a town like Syracuse, drive by closed plants and see how many small businesses that served the larger industry are now closed. So in some senses, car manufacturing and pickup making are very similar!

As for making your own parts - good for you. I don't think that because some makers didnt have to cut out 1000 baseplates by hand under candle light they are any less worthy of participation in this market. There are certain things that are benefitial to make on your own, I make quite a bit by hand as do alot of people, but again, there are some parts that are easier and better to order pre made. Again, it is a business and you have to do what will end up being the most professional and profitable.

And as some have alluded to running out of parts because of this new and greater level of competition, perhaps instead of asking for a show of hands, you should simply have ordered more parts in the beginning, no?

[David Schwab]

They do respool, at least that is what I gathered from an email correspondence I had with them. The quality of the respooling is far superior, though. It doesn't take much in terms of pinching on the spool to make for breakage, and that isn't even considering what the twisting/stretching can do to your overall quality control. The spooling from BAE is top notch.

I've only bought the full 2lb rolls from BAE, but I have never had an issue with the spooling, which I think it right from the manufacturer, which is usually Electrasola. I have wound right up to the naked spool.

I have a couple of old Schatten/Stew-Mac rolls which I was never able to finish because the wire was tangled.

[StarryNight]

Starry, this bit: the "implication of alchemy"...

Psychological marketing games. I'm so tired of that sh!t. Sorry...that's a whole 'nuther thread!

correct! applogies, I don't want to highjack this post.

Mark: the bass luthier name in question has escaped me. I spoke with him at one of the Island Luthiers Guild exhibitions about 5 years ago. Yes, it was electric basses he built.

back to the topic: I would agree with David S, that generic pickup parts are pretty much the same across the board if you're talking quality. If you're talking vintage correct then I think there's an issue. The word quality is a hard word to break down. Quality in terms of longevity vs quality of character?

there seems to be consent among the ventran winders here that the type of steel and composition of alnico does have an effect on the amplified sound of the guitar. The nice thing is that the basic information is here on this forum to better understand what the effect is when these parts are used and especially, what to ask for when ordering parts.

[WolfeMacleod]

Re Gibson buying their bobbins...well, no, they don't have in house injection molding, but they damned well have paid a tool and die maker to make custom bobbins just for Gibson, and for many years, they were the only game in town for humbucker bobbins. I know that Jason has all proprietary parts, so does Seymour.

Ahh, the great Coz. Took me years to find them...daily searching. They did my technical drawings. Even with the existing tooling they offered to use as a base and prior knowledge of how it's done, they still wanted a buttload of $.

[David Schwab]

Interestingly, EMG does have in house injection molding. I was very impressed with a factory tour video I saw at Premiere Guitar once.

[jason lollar]

"I don't think that because some makers didnt have to cut out 1000 baseplates by hand under candle light they are any less worthy of participation in this market."
Oh certainly not but I see alot of people here when they cant buy the part dont realise they can make it or should make an attempt to or at least I think they should. I cant imagine not making any parts on your own. Sure space is a consideration sometimes and when you are starting out maybe you dont have many tools etc.
When you always buy from a middle man - thanks to them for being around because ten years or so ago they werent - if you want to be sure you dont run out of parts you have to buy 3 or 4 times more than you think you need so you have to sit on all this inventory or risk getting caught with your pants down around your ankles!
Hows the shrinkage on the pre cut flatwork? Do the pickup covers fit right every time? Are the magnets too loose or too tight?
Every since NVF stopped making Forbon several years ago I have been fighting shrinkage where I never had to be concerned with it before

[big_teee]

This turned out to be a typical thread on the Pickup Winders Site.
Someone got on here wanting help and advise, about winding and best place to buy parts.
It didn't take long before some of the experienced winders started to attack the newer winders.
This is the only portion of the music-electronics-forum, that does this.
On the Amplification sites, all the real techs are trying to share and help the newer guys with their amp builds.
Some of the Techs with Businesses sell kits, and then help with the trouble shooting of these kits.
On the Guitar Tech category, everyone is helping figure out how to fix a guitar, or install a new part, etc.
I think if your not going to get on here and offer help and assistance, why log on at all???
That's my assessment, and MHO of it all.
Every now and then everyone gets along, but it seems all, soon get over it.
Let's help each other.

Later,
Terry

[Manlius]

"I don't think that because some makers didnt have to cut out 1000 baseplates by hand under candle light they are any less worthy of participation in this market."
Oh certainly not but I see alot of people here when they cant buy the part dont realise they can make it or should make an attempt to or at least I think they should. I cant imagine not making any parts on your own. Sure space is a consideration sometimes and when you are starting out maybe you dont have many tools etc.

I'm not sure it really matters what you, me, or Jimmy down the street thinks other pickup makers should do. I wouldn't bother myself with others, only with what I can control. If someone doesn't want to route garolite or tin snip brass, then in all eventuality, more work for you and me....

When you always buy from a middle man - thanks to them for being around because ten years or so ago they werent - if you want to be sure you dont run out of parts you have to buy 3 or 4 times more than you think you need so you have to sit on all this inventory or risk getting caught with your pants down around your ankles!

I'm sure, especailly with your size, you have an inventory schedule that helps prevent you from getting too short in stock on in demand parts, and you have multiple vendors that can help fill your inventory needs. Fact of the matter is that "middle men" - I never liked the negative conotation to this word - will work extra hard for you if you let them know they may not continue to recieve your business. I think you may already know this Jason - you don't get to where you are by not pushing suppliers around a little bit - in any business...

Every since NVF stopped making Forbon several years ago I have been fighting shrinkage where I never had to be concerned with it before

Send it up to Syracuse for a winter, it'll shrivel right up like a grape too long on the vine....

And to Big Tee, I wouldn't expect to find much in the way of information here, and nor should you expect it. The pickup market has grown quite abit over the last few years - and as a casual visitor here, I can name about 10 people who first came here with no clue and alot of questions, and now sell pickups on the open market. I'm all for a free market, but when you give away info for free you will undoubtedly create competition that was born of your own hard-work and research. You'll notice the effects of this by the infrequent in-depth posts in this forum by established, respected makers - they have seen too frequently there ideas and advice start up new levels of competition. I was always suprised by the free flow of info here, and am not suprised it is guarded here now. There is no free lunch - and there really shouldn't be!

An old friend, economics professor from another lifetime, spoke well of capitalism, which I love, succinctly - "Teach a man to fish, and he'll eventually cut your throat".... fwiw

[big_teee]

I'm not sure it really matters what you, me, or Jimmy down the street thinks other pickup makers should do. I wouldn't bother myself with others, only with what I can control. If someone doesn't want to route garolite or tin snip brass, then in all eventuality, more work for you and me....

I'm sure, especailly with your size, you have an inventory schedule that helps prevent you from getting too short in stock on in demand parts, and you have multiple vendors that can help fill your inventory needs. Fact of the matter is that "middle men" - I never liked the negative conotation to this word - will work extra hard for you if you let them know they may not continue to recieve your business. I think you may already know this Jason - you don't get to where you are by not pushing suppliers around a little bit - in any business...

Send it up to Syracuse for a winter, it'll shrivel right up like a grape too long on the vine....

And to Big Tee, I wouldn't expect to find much in the way of information here, and nor should you expect it. The pickup market has grown quite abit over the last few years - and as a casual visitor here, I can name about 10 people who first came here with no clue and alot of questions, and now sell pickups on the open market. I'm all for a free market, but when you give away info for free you will undoubtedly create competition that was born of your own hard-work and research. You'll notice the effects of this by the infrequent in-depth posts in this forum by established, respected makers - they have seen too frequently there ideas and advice start up new levels of competition. I was always suprised by the free flow of info here, and am not suprised it is guarded here now. There is no free lunch - and there really shouldn't be!

An old friend, economics professor from another lifetime, spoke well of capitalism, which I love, succinctly - "Teach a man to fish, and he'll eventually cut your throat".... fwiw

I agree you have the right to guard your hard earned info.
That was not what I was trying to convey.
I was trying to put a cross, if you don't want to help or give advice, at least don't critcize, or badmouth, & nit pick every little thing others contribute.
Do I have agreement on that?
Like I pointed out earlier. The other Departments, and categories of this fine Forum, don't do that.
If you don't have something positive to contribute to a particular thread, why disrupt, and bother the ones that do.
I don't jump in much on the heavy Theory, in the deep discussions, but I try not to impede those that do.
I don't know much, but I'm happy to share what little knowledge, I can.
This is a great Forum Category, with Very knowledgeable Pickup Makers.
I urge you to share what you like, and let others new and veteran do the same.
Later,
Terry