Using 1960's Plain Enamel Magnet Wire

[kevinT]

There is a pickup maker (who i won't name) who has gotton a stash of some 1960's plain enamel magnet wire. He's using it as a special marketing point and is selling the pickups wound with the wire for quite a bit more.

Since plain enamel has the tendency to get fine cracks over time, and you don't know what type of environmental conditions that the wire was stored in for over 30 years, would you use the wire?

What are folks' thoughts on this?

[mick]

I don't think anyone would want a load if pickups in for warranty repairs so I would imagine they have done their homework and looked into pro's and cons of using it ..repairing things when it could have been avoided would give you the shits a bit , good luck to them if it works out for them....

Mick

[Spence]

I understand it's not PE. I dare you to ask him if it's polysol or not. Still, you can't fault his marketing skills as he's building up a loyal fan base who swamp forums with high praise.
Maybe they really do sound as good as his fans say regardless of what that wire's coated with.

[kevinT]

"In our search to obtain the highest quality pickup components, we source a small supply of NOS pickup wire dated to 1967 on the original sealed boxes. The wire is exquisite, unquestionably of higher quality than what is manufactured today, but it is fragile. Each 67-07 pickup is wound slowly by hand with no breakage. The tone is true 60's vintage."

I pulled this from his web site. He mentions that the wire is fragile.

I'm thinking that that the life expectancy of the pickup would be shorter because of possible shorts because of the wire breaking down. I could be wrong, which i often am.

[Possum]

-----------------

The value in that stuff would be its build and O.D. MWS is the only one making PE anymore at least in the US and its not the same specs that used to be available. Before MWS became the only game in town all of the PE I used to get was .0027" O.D. now its .00262 and believe me there IS a difference in tone between those two. I suspect the insulation buiild is different too. I hope he has a good warranty, in a couple years from now he may be repairing everyone of those things. The fact he doesn't mention what kind of wire it is, is suspicious it may be polysol as spence mentions....

[kevinT]

I hope he has a good warranty, in a couple years from now he may be repairing everyone of those things. The fact he doesn't mention what kind of wire it is, is suspicious it may be polysol as spence mentions....

That is what i was thinking. Even as Spece said, its a great marketing angle, but i don't think I would risk it. It looks like he has a great following, but that could turn around if those pickups that folks spent a lot of cash on would start shorting out.

he mentions that it is enamel in his product catalog section

quoted from his site.

"1967 enamel wire... "

[gilligan]

Why?

Not to change the thread??????Why is that " it is from the 60's " that big of a deal? Are there not great guitarists from the 70's on, that didn't use pickups made in the 60's? I think it's a mind game, a fasination. Sure loads of crap pickups have been, and are being, made. Does that mean that only those from the 60's have " THE " sound? I was 17 in 67, ( old guy ) so I remember the music well. As a matter-of-fact, I had been playing in juke houses for two years already by then. Not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just wondering. Is it all that, or just a money making opprotunity. My P bass pickups sound as good, or better, than any I used, or heard in the 60's IMO. I'm not an expert on guitar though. I'm not saying it's good, or bad. I just said what I said, and now there's all this. ( Any one remember hearing that before? ) Don't burn me here, genuinely intrested in opinions.
Ron

[kevinT]

It has to do with the age of the wire and that enamel insulation on the wire breaks down over time (Jason and Brosnac both mention this in their books). The wire has been sitting around (lord knows where) for over 30 years and there is a good possibility that it has deteriorated. To what extent, i don't know.

As a business person, one would have to weigh the risk of using it and having the pickup short out sooner or later (or maybe not at all), or winding pickups with the wire and highlighting it as a selling point.

If i knew the wire was ok for sure, i would use it myself...but there is no way of knowing.... and in IMO is a bit risky to use. I was asking folks their thoughts on the matter....nothing at all wrong with the 60's.

[NightWinder]

.......Consider the Source!! Is it reputable? Or a don mare? I would use it for research. Thats it. Possum stated the obvious, so comparing would be appropriate. Selling would be risky. Take that old wire, wind. Take your new wire, wind. Compare. Hear what each has and whats missing for either or....But honestly selling it.....I'd be nervous. Thats where that extec and some deep wax pentration would come into use.

[Spence]

It is very risky. But here's a thought; he mentions that his wife was not too impressed when he came home with that stockpile. Now if you then find that the coating's a little unreliable you're going to need to punt it out quickly.

[NightWinder]

Man......just for research. I heard that loud and clear the first time....Spence!!!

[Possum]

mmmmmmm

That info that insulation cracks and blah blah over time, i"ve never seen any factual basis in fact for that. I save all my wire from any vintage rewinds, FYI I am going to buy a microscope here real soon and thats one thing I'm going to look into. None of the wire I've saved looks old or crackly to the naked eye and none of it feels old. Fender heavily potted most of their pickups so I don't buy the fact that they fail because the insulation broke down. Is it better because its from the 60s, well, very well may be if its in good condtion. The build and size of it will be different than what we can get so its going to sound more "vintage." But is THAT better? No, if you like vintage tones yeah but honestly most guitar players don't really like true vintage tones sometimes. Anyway, I'm really interested to see what this stuff looks like up real close through a microscope, to see if in actualiyt the stuff actually does crack and break down and how the builds compare to what we're getting now. One of the supposed secrets of PAFs is the wire had a thicker build on it and I for one think that is highly plausible and is one thing Shaw said they found....

[NightWinder]

I wonder if it was simply the machine coating capabilitys almost 50 yrs ago were not as accurate and fine as they are now. Heavy insulations change the whole ballgame. Thats something to always question too, if the insulation is intact. I guess storage would play a factor in this.... Microscope time!!

[Spence]

The coatings can come flaking off and you'd see it when you're winding flying off in a fine dust. That's when it's time to abandon the whole reel. I've seen this once. I have quite a bit of NOS wire which is perfect, not a flaw anywhere.

[WolfeMacleod]

Look at the picture of the pickups in that page.

It's Polysol. I'm willing to bet it. Formvar doesn't photograph that way, and PE is much darker.
It's almost tempting to buy a set, just to prove it.

And yes, PE and Formvar to chip and flak off over time. I've torn apart plenty of old pickups where the insulation sheds like dandruff.