MLP....Just in case

[greenfingers]

There is one historic example of PAF tone thats almost unidentifiable and thats Clapton on the Beano album. I'm reading his autobiography and he says he turned the bass on his amp all the way up and played on the bridge pickup. He doesn't mention he also use a treble booster to get added gain, then you also notice in the recordings there's very little treble at all, so he either had it turned way back on the guitar or the amp. The results of all that just about completely masked being able to tell it was a PAF. Its not one of my favorite classic tones what he did on that album. If you use too much gain or pedals etc. its pretty easy to completely obliterate whats special about those pickups, that one example earlier of that guy on YouTube playing a '58LP through a Trainwreck with alot of gain just wrecked the tone. On the other hand Gary Moore knew how to get decent gain and keep a great PAF tone going on Peter Green's guitar, so guess it can be done :-) OK, I know I'm obsessed, I'll shut up now.....

I think Clapton had KT66's in his combo on that album, wich contribute to a more round sound ,The fact that he was running the amp flat out and recorded with distant mikeing also add to that sound.... By the way, What the hell is going on with all the bad vibes at the moment? I go away for the weekend and come back and start reading all these heated words. I've said this before "Peoples views on pickups is very much like religion, you all have one and think yours is the right one too follow" Thank God I'm a atheist

[Stan H]

Thank God I'm a atheist

Huh?

[salvarsan]

!taste

I've said this before "Peoples views on pickups is very much like religion, you all have one and think yours is the wright one too follow" Thank God I'm a atheist

Polite form: It's like gender -- most have at least one.

What I really think: Opinions on pickups are like assholes -- everyone has one, and they all STINK!

-drh

[greenfingers]

Opinions on pickups are like assholes -- everyone has one, and they all STINK!

Yea! I wish someone would open a window or light a match on all this stink! Maybe i will get angry and start ripping my clothes off, start throwing things around, and wake up and all will be right with the world? Greenfingers crossed

[salvarsan]

PMF vs. MLP : da Final Conflick

Question: What are the important differences between Pickup Makers Forum (PMF) and MLP?

Answer:

PMF is a technical forum that
contains information from members
who produce a relevant product.

PMF is about business.

MLP is a fan forum that
contains opinions from members
who consume a relevant product.

MLP is a party.

I don't talk business at a party, and
don't party in the business place.

Keeps things simpler.

-drh

[BCRGreg]

Yeah, I tried to stop the bullshit but have gotten threatened and called a bunch of names there.

BCR GREG called us all pussies. I really dont think him and his small stature would do that to anyones face but hey, internet comandos what can you say LOLOLOLO

Not all, fella. Just the ones that deserve the moniker. I am impressed with this forum as a whole, so I am not categorizing the place.

What does my stature have to do with anything? I am here, my identity is clear to all(unlike th many that hide behind made up names and withold their true identities), and welcome anyone to enter my store and talk face to face. If you feel that you are physically superior to me and therefore your opinion is superior, then you are mistaken.

My years in business, my customer base(including many in your CD collection) speak volumes for my opinion.

Have a nice day.

[Sam Lee Guy]

Prease Mr. Greg! Sam can guarantee none of your customers in my CD correction. I have only LP and single! Probabry many in there though. Anyway, for what does stand BCR? _____? _____? Repairs ? Name of shop? I almost change name once to
NGU 525K because it cheaper than buying personarized numberprate but that car go wrong too much.
Sam need to learn more about pickup, so when topic get back to pickup so I can steal more trade secret?

[chevalij]

Hey BCR, first off, not trying to start a fight. However.. Assuming your opinion is superior is wrong as well. Having years in business and a solid customer base, also does not make your opinion right, it makes it YOUR opinion. If you are spouting off what they think, then you are just parroting their opinion. My uncle has been in the same business for 40 years. Know's every body in his business and everybody knows him. He, sir... it an ignorant ass. Nobody wants or values his opinion, no matter how often he gives it. Of course, the small stature comment wasn't called for.

Not all, fella. Just the ones that deserve the moniker. I am impressed with this forum as a whole, so I am not categorizing the place.

What does my stature have to do with anything? I am here, my identity is clear to all(unlike th many that hide behind made up names and withold their true identities), and welcome anyone to enter my store and talk face to face. If you feel that you are physically superior to me and therefore your opinion is superior, then you are mistaken.

My years in business, my customer base(including many in your CD collection) speak volumes for my opinion.

Have a nice day.

[David Schwab]

Kevin and David: I still don't think you are understanding what I am saying. In the song clips I used in my videos, yes the tones are all different, but they ALL have a tone that to ME is immediately identifiable as authentic PAF tone. It is a tone that is like no other, regardless of what flavor it is, how much wire is on it or what magnets were used, it still sounds like a PAF and I can tell the difference.

That's why I said "Early Gibson Humbucker" tone. And yes, many different tones.

It reminds me of the first time I heard a Duncan Alnico II pro. A customer bought a new PRS and didn't like the HFS and Classic bass pickups in it.. this was right when PRS started making their own pickups. They were quite toneless... the bridge pickup barked, and the neck sounded like a blanket was over the amp. My '81 LP Standard with Shaws kicked it's butt! And those are the greatest pickups either.

So I put a set of the Duncans in, and right away it sounded like a Gibson guitar... reminded me of a LP Jr. or something like that... I started playing Mick Ronson lines right away! I don't know why it sounded like a Gibson, but it did, I just couldn't place my finger on the exact reason.

OK so if that's the tone— Gibsonish—then I get it now. But I don't think that's what most people are talking about. Otherwise Duncan would call those PAF's and he doesn't.

I gave a set of StewMac humbuckers I wound to my partner to try in a LP Jr. he made. They were the first two humbuckers I ever wound for practice. I liked them.. clean and plucky sounding. He liked them too.... better than a lot of the newer Gibson stuff. Do they sound like PAF's? I doubt it, but they had a nice vibe to them that a lot of pickups I hear don't.

To me it's all about if I like the pickup or not, and not if it sounds like a particular tone. But then I'd rather have three DeArmond-Rowe gold foils in a Strat than the usual fare.

Why try to get ONE tone from one player or some record... boring! My favorite Les Paul tones are Robert Fripp, Mick Ronson, Jan Akkerman, and so on. They don't sound the same, but they have that Gibson vibe.

But Dave, your pickups sound like some old guitar you had up in the attic. That's pretty amazing. I'm sure the others here do as well, I just haven't heard them yet.

And those visiting from MLPF... have an open mind and listen....we know our shit! You might learn something new and lose old misconceptions.

[chevalij]

Also, because I like to watch a traffic accident as much as the next (while not being involved that is), what thread are you all talking about? Never mind, found it. Just had to follow the ambulance and the 8 lawyers...

[David Schwab]

Fair comment - but the good ones tend to have a similar personality, kind of like one Les Paul sounds in the same camp as another Les Paul in terms of it's sonic signature. I guess that's what I mean. Kind of...

I agree with you, but I get so tired of the term "PAF", and everyone seems to have a different idea what that means. Just make a nice clean bright (but not strident) humbucker and call it a day.

I'd much rather "traditional" humbucker tone or something.. and please, no "VINTAGE" I'm so damn sick of that word.

But I'm old and cranky so...

[HJM]

I agree with you, but I get so tired of the term "PAF", and everyone seems to have a different idea what that means. Just make a nice clean bright (but not strident) humbucker and call it a day.

I'd much rather "traditional" humbucker tone or something.. and please, no "VINTAGE" I'm so damn sick of that word.

But I'm old and cranky so...

That's fair comment, shall we start on tonal adjectives now....I've had another guy looking for a strat pickup with a chewy midrange.....

[David Schwab]

That's fair comment, shall we start on tonal adjectives now....I've had another guy looking for a strat pickup with a chewy midrange.....

Tonal adjectives are so weird.. some we all accept, but how do you come up with words for a sound?

Some are onomatopoeic... "clang" for instance. Rickenbacker basses go "clang!"

others.. glassy, crunchy, blatty, grainy, gritty, dirt...

Bass tones... bark, burp, buttery, syrupy, thick. I recently wanted more "cushion" in my new neck pickup design. And more "texture" in the mids in the bridge, while having a nice "burp" and "growl."

Yes.. I'll have cheese with that please...

[HJM]

Tonal adjectives are so weird.. some we all accept, but how do you come up with words for a sound?

Some are onomatopoeic... "clang" for instance. Rickenbacker basses go "clang!"

others.. glassy, crunchy, blatty, grainy, gritty, dirt...

Bass tones... bark, burp, buttery, syrupy, thick. I recently wanted more "cushion" in my new neck pickup design. And more "texture" in the mids in the bridge, while having a nice "burp" and "growl."

Yes.. I'll have cheese with that please...

It's a funny old business!

[chevalij]

I just read that whole thread. Nothing really bad in it. Dave, you stated that the metal was important. Okay, I believe you. Why wouldn't it? Magnetic flux is a funny thing. However, you also stated it over and over. I myself took it to mean "I've got the only true PAF clone" because only I understand the metal. I can see where others may get their backs up. Now, I don't wind humbuckers so I don't really care.

I can see where you defended your comments well, and you were self debasing to the point of being humble. "crotchety old fart" may have been used You told them your opinions based on your research, they didn't care. That's it...