My uneven mismatched nightmare The Apprentice :)

[JCrab]

Ok guys I have been pulling my hair out I am so close to the tone in my head it is just not funny.. I hit the wall hard about 2 hrs ago and I'm just recovering and I need some input. I built a bridge pu with mismatched coils and I have more winds on the slug coil and I just cant seem to hit the sweet spot on the hi mid trebel,, there is to much.. sounds great at low volume or with gain but will take your head off with rise in volume. I was shooting for a BBpro type tone 42awg nic/sil baseplate. I was looking to roll a lil of the hi-end off cause I like short scale alder body maple neck guitars. I have no Idea how many winds per bobbin a BBP has but I found the sound I like out of the screw pole but the slug is kicking my butt. It seems that if I unwind the slug pole a few then the bass and low mids just take over and if I add a few winds to the screw I get a not so pleasent lowmidbass sound I have done this 4 different ways within 20 winds ber bobbin...pickup reads around 8.5k give or take... Any advice would be great..ANY

[big_teee]

Ok guys I have been pulling my hair out I am so close to the tone in my head it is just not funny.. I hit the wall hard about 2 hrs ago and I'm just recovering and I need some input. I built a bridge pu with mismatched coils and I have more winds on the slug coil and I just cant seem to hit the sweet spot on the hi mid trebel,, there is to much.. sounds great at low volume or with gain but will take your head off with rise in volume. I was shooting for a BBpro type tone 42awg nic/sil baseplate. I was looking to roll a lil of the hi-end off cause I like short scale alder body maple neck guitars. I have no Idea how many winds per bobbin a BBP has but I found the sound I like out of the screw pole but the slug is kicking my butt. It seems that if I unwind the slug pole a few then the bass and low mids just take over and if I add a few winds to the screw I get a not so pleasent lowmidbass sound I have done this 4 different ways within 20 winds ber bobbin...pickup reads around 8.5k give or take... Any advice would be great..ANY

Can we get more information?
Wire type, Magnet type and gauss?
Tension, TPL, etc.
Maybe with that more folks will have Ideas to help!
B_T

[JCrab]

Hey T
alnico 5, Elektrisola 42awg,, med hand tension,about 100tpl, no idea what a stock stewmac alnico 5 gauss is,, I am totaly guessing at everything at this point.. just goin by ear Mabey if someone knew some BBP starting specs for me just to see where I am at or how far off. I have 5150 on the screw and 5600-5618-5636 on the slug,, I have 3 of the same pickups with same screw windings but 3 different slug.. I hope that helps. Thanks for replying..

[big_teee]

Here's some other posts, maybe they will help.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t20775/
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t4046/
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t15845/
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t22824/
Good Luck,
Terry

[copperheadroads]

Hey T
alnico 5, Elektrisola 42awg,, med hand tension,about 100tpl, no idea what a stock stewmac alnico 5 gauss is,, I am totaly guessing at everything at this point.. just goin by ear Mabey if someone knew some BBP starting specs for me just to see where I am at or how far off. I have 5150 on the screw and 5600-5618-5636 on the slug,, I have 3 of the same pickups with same screw windings but 3 different slug.. I hope that helps. Thanks for replying..

I have not heard the a Burst Bucker pro ,but it does have a A5 magnet (I believe )& If i'm reading right your 3 slug bobbins 5600-5618-5636 .18 turns in difference don't mean anything you need to go more like 100
& If you are trying to get it up to that 8.7k dcr you have to increase the turns on both coils do about 5650 a coil ,but offset it so what ever you subtract from the screw coil add to the slug

[JCrab]

I have not heard the a Burst Bucker pro ,but it does have a A5 magnet (I believe )& If i'm reading right your 3 slug bobbins 5600-5618-5636 .18 turns in difference don't mean anything you need to go more like 100
& If you are trying to get it up to that 8.7k dcr you have to increase the turns on both coils do about 5650 a coil ,but offset it so what ever you subtract from the screw coil add to the slug

Thanks Copper,, This is fantastic info for a me.. I see what you are saying about getting to the DCR.. U just saved me a ton of Copper

[copperheadroads]

Thanks Copper,, This is fantastic info for a me.. I see what you are saying about getting to the DCR.. U just saved me a ton of Copper

I'm a firm believer of paying dues/wasting wire,r & d ..... ....It's just more satisfying when you come up with your own results ........Anyway ...Cheers

[JCrab]

I'm a firm believer of paying dues/wasting wire,r & d ..... ....It's just more satisfying when you come up with your own results ........Anyway ...Cheers

I started with a 7lb spool, Im down to 1.5.. I have a few great neck picups but the bridge has been a real bearcat, This info really helps

[big_teee]

Hey T
alnico 5, Elektrisola 42awg,, med hand tension,about 100tpl, no idea what a stock stewmac alnico 5 gauss is,, I am totaly guessing at everything at this point.. just goin by ear Mabey if someone knew some BBP starting specs for me just to see where I am at or how far off. I have 5150 on the screw and 5600-5618-5636 on the slug,, I have 3 of the same pickups with same screw windings but 3 different slug.. I hope that helps. Thanks for replying..

Here are some general humbucker ideas, they may or may not apply here.
Some guitars with the bridge pickup mounted very closely to the bridge are difficult to get to sound right.
The magnet type and gauss IMO make a huge difference in tone.
It is a good idea to always have several different magnet types in humbucker bar sizes.
I always stock A2, A5, A8, C5, or C8.
My individual preference, for a bridge pickup after magnet swapping is usually a fully Charged A2.
I like a rounder tone than some.
Most of the Gibson vintage tone Humbuckers use a A2 Magnet.
I think the BB pro does uses a A5.
If you want that bright or harsh tone, I would use A5.
Another Magnet type that is overlooked often is the A8.
I like the tone of the A8 better than the A5, Your mileage may vary!
I usually degauss the A8 about 20%. Still plenty bright but IMO takes some of the Harhness off.
So, once You get the bobbins, in the ballpark, I suggest adjusting lots of little things before bobbin rewinding.
Anyone else got any Humbucker tweaking ideas?
Terry

[LtKojak]

Ok guys I have been pulling my hair out I am so close to the tone in my head it is just not funny.. I hit the wall hard about 2 hrs ago and I'm just recovering and I need some input. I built a bridge pu with mismatched coils and I have more winds on the slug coil and I just cant seem to hit the sweet spot on the hi mid trebel,, there is to much.. sounds great at low volume or with gain but will take your head off with rise in volume. I was shooting for a BBpro type tone 42awg nic/sil baseplate. I was looking to roll a lil of the hi-end off cause I like short scale alder body maple neck guitars. I have no Idea how many winds per bobbin a BBP has but I found the sound I like out of the screw pole but the slug is kicking my butt. It seems that if I unwind the slug pole a few then the bass and low mids just take over and if I add a few winds to the screw I get a not so pleasent lowmidbass sound I have done this 4 different ways within 20 winds ber bobbin...pickup reads around 8.5k give or take... Any advice would be great..ANY

OK, so you took BB pros as your tone reference point... man, I've had those and I've always though how hash and brittle they were, specially at the bridge position. A5 is definitely the wrong magnet to that kind of high TPL, uber-tight wind used. A2 or UOA5 would've been a much better option, if you asked me. Which it'd taken off the brittleness, but not the harshness, BTW.

Anyway, the mismatch found in old p'ups was due to the completely careless winding process at the plant. Something that Internet hearsay transformed from fault into feature.

I'm not a believer in coil mismatching, even though seems to be the rage lately, specially after Seymour Duncan turned a hybrid made by a forum member into a production p'up: the '59/Custom Hybrid, which BTW sounds pretty good, specially with A4, UOA5 and A8 mags.

You'll need to get down to 65 - 95 TPL. That's where it's at in most great sounding p'ups.

Don't go by DC readings, as they change with temperature causing confusion.

Having 5000 turns of AWG 42 PE @ 65 TPL w/medium tension per coil as your starting point, think percentages instead. Myself, the slightest change I'm able to hear is 2 %, so take it as a starting point too. So, wind one bobbin @ 48% and the other 52% to see how it turns out. If I'd like to mismatch, I'd wind a coil @ 65 TPL and the other @ 85 TPL and I'd listen to that.

My 2 pence of nothing are on the table.

[copperheadroads]

You'll need to get down to 65 - 95 TPL. That's where it's at in most great sounding p'ups.

The BB pro with the A5 magnet don't sound vintage like the A2 magnets
& If you going to use poly wire (which burstbuckers use poly wire) will be harsh (like BB's are) like Pepe said , especially with the 65tpl

[JCrab]

I wound up a BBP type pickup and I found it a bit much.Nice pickup but I am going to try to bring it down to the low 8k. I have one pickup with the 5150-5618 that sound pretty nice but needs adjusted or unwound.. I am going to mess with it and see what happens. .. I think I really like the low 8k zone.. I really appreciate all the input, I know I have alot to lean but things are sounding good I wound in the 90tpl area with the BBP type pickup and it sounds great for a beginner but what happens when you get into 65tpl.. I am guessing it makes it brittle ?

[LtKojak]

I wound in the 90tpl area with the BBP type pickup and it sounds great for a beginner but what happens when you get into 65tpl.. I am guessing it makes it brittle ?

The contrary.

Low 8Ks in a bridge p'up is A2, UOA5 and max A4 territory. A5 will make it sound harsh and if the bobbin is wound at a too high TPL and/or tension, brittle. And if it's too close to the strings, muddy too. A recipe for tone disaster. Add hard woods as Maple or Ash and you'll get the "nails on a chalkboard" syndrome.

YMMV.

HTH,

[David Schwab]

Mismatching coils makes the pickup brighter. If you want less high end, match the coils.

Gibson even wrote:

When the two coils in a pickup have a different number of turns, that variation puts a little "edge" or "bite" on the classic humbucker sound. That's the sound BurstBuckers™ replicate.

The reason is that humbuckers tend to cancel out the upper harmonics, which gives a darker tone than single coils. Mismatching the coils lessens the cancelation.

I'd try using an Alnico II magnet. You can also try winding it hotter. That will darken up the tone. You may need to switch to 43 or 44 gauge wire.

[JCrab]

so my question is how did they wind pafs at around 8k and use 42awg and alnico5 mag.. seems pretty standard. I want less output than a BBP and places like stew mac have parson street humbuckers thst are low 8k with 42awg and u can use a2-a5. I am getting confused