Sprague Orange Drop Caps

[Leo_Gnardo]

From you comment over at ampgarage:

........
At one time I thought the tone cap would make no difference with the control full up but careful listening showed me that's not so. (Currently there are "special" pots available that do go open-circuit when dialed full up, so there's an option that does take the cap out of circuit.)
........

The cap is a short circuit at frequencies near the resonance of the pickup/cable system where the impedance is very high, and yes, the 500K R then loads the pickup audibly. But does it matter what kind of cap you use, if that is a relevant question in this discussion?

Relevant question yes. Relevant cap, no. At 500K remove, or 250k in some cases, I'm sure any "claimed superiority" or reverse, of the cap wouldn't much matter. The effect of such a filter is the merest but detectable reduction of hi end sizzle, if indeed there is any of that in the pickup.

The answer is no, and the value of the cap is not even critical. Think of it as a coupling cap somewhat removed from the signal path.

I agree, and agree again. Correctamundo. Would be hard/impossible to tell a 0.015 uF from a 0.05 again at a distance of 500K or 250K. Might be able to tell some with a sensitive meter or scope.

However, at the other end of the tone knob scale, I think there's something to talk about.

Some guitarists who do use their tone controls (some leave 'em up all the time, or even have 'em removed like one of my customers did) would like to be able to spin that T knob all the way down, and still have some vestige of mid/hi response. Too big a cap (0.1 uf generally) and the tone goes to total mud. One can select a cap, or make up a combo if need be, that allows a considerable hi rolloff but still lets the guitar "talk" meanwhile relieving the guitarist of having to find that "just right" point on the tone control. Caps in the value range 0.022 down to .0022 worth exploring for this function.

What brand cap is best? We've just kicked that all to pieces. Whatever you have on hand will do. Unless you're trying to impress somebody.

BTW I've been aware of your electronics expertise since the Sulzer supply articles in Audio Amateur. Glad to see you here, and all the best!

[pdf64]

Fig 14 of BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups is good at demonstrating how the loading on a pickup, ie Vol // Tone // Amp, act to damp the resonant peak.
Pete

[David Schwab]

If you see Gibson being trashed on here, I'd guess it's because many of these guys make pickups that compete with Gibson's own offerings. They need to convince you that your LP reissue sucks, but there is one ray of hope, swap out the pickups!

Gibson have also made some bad management decisions lately and were voted one of America's worst employers. Doesn't necessarily mean they make bad guitars though.

No, I think it's because Gibson's quality has gone down hill, while their prices have gone up.

I've posted this before, but this is the fingerboard on a high end Les Paul Custom. Probably a $6,000 guitar. I guess a little sanding is out of the question?



Plus many of their recent offerings look like they were designed by and to be by clowns. lol



Oh and not to forget this looker:







Their guitar pickups might be the best thing they make. Their bass pickups suck.

[David Schwab]

A friend of mine bought one of the "Barely finished" Les Pauls. What a crazy idea. It looked like it had been run over by a truck! But it played well and sounded good.

I bet someone got a big raise for that. Look at all the labor they save, and still charge $1,000+ for it.

[J M Fahey]

This Thread should have never been put in the Pickup Makers forum to start with.
Most Pickup winders could care less what Cap is put in a historic Guitar or any other.
For the most part I use Caps by value, If it has the right tone I'm looking for, I use it.
If not I go up or down in value!
The Moderator could move this thread, I for one would be fine with it!
Do we have a Second on that?
T

Sorry but until the "Tone capacitors" sub Forum is created, Guitar Tone capacitors are closer to Guitar Pickups than to any other sub Forum here, by a long way.
Closer as in physically closer and electrically closer, which for me is close enough

[bob p]

Man, those are some *FUGLY* guitars. But they're not Historic Shop items and they don't have the reproduction Bumblebee caps, so I guess we're no longer on-topic about caps, and we're not even off-topic about Historic Shop guitars or Bumblebee caps any more. It looks like we're on a Gibson Sucks hijack now. I'll join you guys who think that line of guitars is a bad joke. Those things are butt-ugly.

[bob p]

That chatter is really bad. We have to blame the factory for bad QC on that one. But they're not the only ones to blame. We have to blame a dealer for not bothering to inspect and reject that guitar when it was delivered. And then we have to blame a customer for buying it. The only reason that anyone can sell a guitar that looks that bad is because there is somebody out there who will buy it. If you want to extinguish the production of lame-quality work, then vote with your wallet. Don't buy a guitar like that and the problem will become self-limiting.

By any chance was that guitar sold as a second? Or at a reduced/discount price because it was substandard? I can't imagine that anyone would have chosen to pay a first-quality price for a guitar that looks like that if they had had a chance to play it before the purchase. So I'm wondering if it was a "first quality" guitar, did it come from a mail order outlet that treats guitars like every other commodity widget in a brown box, and the customer didn't have a chance to actually see the guitar before buying it? It's hard to explain why anyone would have proceeded with the purchase otherwise.

I agree that there's a problem in buying all sorts of widgets that are mass produced in American factories. The problem isn't limited to guitars. I custom ordered a brand-new car and had it arrive with seatbelts that weren't bolted onto the floor. Somebody just failed to do a good job. And somebody else passed it through QC. And the dealer didn't catch it either. What that tells me is that there are a lot of people at various stages in the supply chain who are all doing as little as possible. Pride in your work just isn't what it used to be.

I own a few Historic Shop Gibsons. I have no complaints about their workmanship. Like pdf64, every one of my Historics was absolutely flawless right out of the box. Fit and finish were perfect. Every one of them had a great setup that didn't need any adjustment. End every one of them felt as "live" unplugged as any other guitar I've played, bar none. Every single one of them was in a class that's far above any of the "regular Gibsons" I've ever played. My Historics are so good that I finally decided to part with a real 55 Custom that I had had for decades. It had appreciated to the point that I couldn't justify keeping it.

I can't speak for any of the "regular" Gibsons because I don't have experience wtih that line of guitars. But I've never had any problems with the custom shop stuff. If there is an ongoing problem with any of their guitars, then my dealer is going a really good job of screening his inventory and rejecting the bad ones. A good dealer does that for you. (No, I don't buy my guitars at Musician's Friend.)

[big_teee]

Sorry but until the "Tone capacitors" sub Forum is created, Guitar Tone capacitors are closer to Guitar Pickups than to any other sub Forum here, by a long way.
Closer as in physically closer and electrically closer, which for me is close enough

I disagree.
We have the Guitar Tech forum.
That is usually where this sort of thing winds up.
Guitar Tech
Usually anything to do with the guitar control cavity, or teching should go in there.
The problem is we have guys that never leave a sub forum.
So anything they thinik of goes there.
Juan, you and I go all over the forum, and we put things where they go, not in just one spot.
Pots and Caps have always gone in the guitar tech area.
We have some guys that want to build amps in the Pickup area, same deal.
Peace and Tone!
T

[J M Fahey]

Fine, didn't even remember that GT subforum ... maybe because I never ever visited it
To each his own.
By the way, I hardly ever visit the pickup subforum either, but this new "activity" intro page starts throwing those topics into my face.
Oh well.

[kayakerca]

I disagree.
We have the Guitar Tech forum.
That is usually where this sort of thing winds up.
Guitar Tech
Usually anything to do with the guitar control cavity, or teching should go in there.
The problem is we have guys that never leave a sub forum.
So anything they thinik of goes there.
Juan, you and I go all over the forum, and we put things where they go, not in just one spot.
Pots and Caps have always gone in the guitar tech area.
We have some guys that want to build amps in the Pickup area, same deal.
Peace and Tone!
T

Tomato, tomato. Potato, potato.

Funny how when you spell them out they don't look different.

[J M Fahey]

Well, since we're digressing
My youth English Teacher was a fan (that's the understatement of the year ) of "Broadway Musicals" and tortured us playing them all day long , "to make us practice".
But there was one , the typical plot "rich girl falls in love with poor boy" which I still remember some 50 years later (not surprising, I must have suffered it some 2584 times ) where the rich girl tries to correct the poor boy's pronunciation, and she sings something like:
"I say potato, you say "powtahtow", I say tomato, you say "towmahtow" .... and so on.
DSoes anybody recognize it?
It must have been a big hit around 1960 .

[bob p]

Let's Call the Whole Thing Off - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Lyrebird Steve]

Most Pickup winders could care less what Cap is put in a historic Guitar or any other

We have the Guitar Tech forum.
That is usually where this sort of thing winds up.
Guitar Tech

Thanks ... didn't know this existed

[J M Fahey]

Let's Call the Whole Thing Off - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hey!!, thanks !!!!
Sure brings back warm fuzzy memories !!!
A 1937 hit !!!!!!!! Incredible !!!
And yes, she insisted on us listening to it to emphasize proper pronunciation.
Which in my case was doubly needed because I used to speak "Australian English"
Well, this happened around 1962 and she was already a "senior Lady" so it must have been popular in *her* youth.
Thanks again

[Joe L]

and Joe L, grab those TV's before the gators do!

It's the gators that have to worry! It is true that cajuns will eat just about anything.