Moving to Europe

[J M Fahey]

I also had very good experiences in France, but there's a couple details to consider:

1) they hate people who "just speaks in English and makes no effort towards French"
When searching for cheap rooms , I was met by cold stares (my backpack *screamed* "tourist", of course) ... until I started speaking correct French.
The same person which just denied having free space to others in front of me, winked and said "come back in an hour, first free room will be yours".

2) they hate *English* .... and for good reason.
Among others, the "30 years war", the "100 years war" (just in case the first one was not enough), Imperial competition, both inside Europe and worldwide for about 200 years, etc.
Hard to brush that aside.
In fact England and France only became "friends" after 1870, when Germans replaced them as "the enemy".

By the same token they love Ireland "oppressed by the English" and I suspect they feel something similar for Scotland .

3) as of women, personally I like, say, 10/20% of those I see in the street, the rest is "meh" or "ugh".
When I first got into a Subway in Paris, early morning, full of commuters going to work, I liked, say, 40%.
Couldn't believe it myself, so I started analyzing *why*.
Fact is all, even when going to work, many still sleepy, they clearly had spent some time on their personal appeareance: well dressed, had subtle makeup (even teens), showed they cared about their hair, even a simple ponytail was tastefully done.
No fat, sloppy girls, that's for sure.
I couldn't believe it, 8 to 9 AM on a crowded Subway car !!!.
Nowhere else I saw that, although , according to Stan, probably St Petersburg comes close .

4) racist? yes.
Like in most Empires, they raise a barrier between "rukers" and "ruled":
I reached France by train, going from Spain.
At the frontier station, you had to leave it and cross on foot.
There were 2 huge doors, one labelled "If you are an European Union citizen, through here" ; the other one had a *long* list: "if you are a citizen of Morocco/Tunisia/... (Arab) ... Cameroun/Nigeria/ .... (African) ... Vietnam/Laos/ ... (Asian) ... through here" .
I stood doubting before the door, and a French cop called me
- "what are you waiting for?"
- "I'm none of those (pointing at the long list) but not an EU citizen either"
- "where are you from?"
- "Argentina"
- "I imagined something like that (just by seeing you) .... you are European ... through here please"

[km6xz]

Girl and culture talk......

You are right, there seems to be pre-judgement of Americans because the constant references to France as being the enemy and socialist in US society so they expect a little bit of apology in the form of being nice, friendly and not demanding special treatment that happens everywhere else. Maybe it is pride that they are only ones with a relatively pure culture when US fast food, movies and redneck behavior is swamping cultures worldwide, cultures that have survived centuries by being appropriate for the weather, environment, resourced and isolation. Eventually to see any "authentic" indigenous culture it will be in a zoo-like amusement park of endangered cultures.
Regardless of all that, France really does have higher quality of life for a higher percentage of their population.

Viewing women is best done after work when they go out to socialize, on weekends taking a stroll in the park or in outdoor cafes. The %'es are quite impressive. Here, it is doubly so, when walking with a foreign male, i usually have to warn them to relax and don't seem so bug-eyed or break out teenager jokes to impress them. Anyone can meet anyone. But if they are enthusiastic, and not just being polite is usually determined if you have something interesting to say, and have a humane sense of humor. It is not cool for self deprecating or cutting humor unless directed in a funny way towards a celebrity. When the laugh comes, it is natural and spontaneous with a genuine sincere smile that goes right to their core . It is so different than the forced smile put on it stores in the US.
I have never, ever gone up to some girl and tried to start a conversation and be rebuffed. Guys in the US know what I am talking about. That is until they see you go retrieve the car and drive off in a 300km/h Maserati, which seems to impress the wrong sort of girls in the US.

Speaking of genuine smiles, I am asked often by Americans arriving on cruise ships if the guide or a waitress is angry with then because they did not have a big smile. That big fake smile is trained response in the US based on the first non-funny smiles in 1930s Hollywood films. The US was just like the rest of the world, smiling without some funny event was a sign if insanity, not anger. A guide will not get a tip if they do not fake a smile even when talking about the Siege and USSR deaths of 26,000,000 in the GPW. So I tried to explain that not smiling is a very good sign, it means when they do, it means a lot. Without a smile is not anger or depression but being respectful to a new acquaintance and a heart felt laugh or smile means a great deal. When out with friends, the girls are very free with the smiles and laughter, it is not faked at all.
Ever want to contact the person again here in Russia, easy, ask for their phone number, vKontakt page or email and 100% guaranteed you will get it, unless you are a clueless dickhead, but they will still be polite. My general policy is to never ask for contact information or even ask for a dance since it still is hard to grok that they really enjoy our times together and essentially are unfazed by age differences, as long as are polite and have something interesting to discuss. If they want to resume contact they will ask. They are 20-28 and I am 64 but many of my older female friends who I am close to have turned 30 or so since first becoming friends 8 years ago.

It is amazing how easy it is to meet interesting people who know something.
At least a dozen girls will come up to me in a club and ask how I can have so much stamina on the dance floor and I respond that it is practice and I have 50 + years more practice. I usually start dancing early, often the only one dancing then girls start dancing and there is sort of a common bond between "civilians" and "dancers"(the lookers and the doers) and eventually one or more parties of girls will invite me to their table to celebrate the birthday or engagement. They let other guys who, after a few drinks, want to get into the action, know that I am with them. About 4am is the dreaded time when some clubs let men in who were not there all night. There are those who drink cheap alcohol on the street and come in broke and get aggressive with girls since it is 4am and they have no girl. That is repeated often and the girls hate it. That is when we head off as a band of merry makers and find someplace to party or rent a canal boat, each chipping in 500 Rubles($16).
A number of clubs have heeded my warning about letting boys who have been drinking elsewhere into the club. The girls are paying customers and want to be left alone and having their evening end prematurely because of the horde of young men arrive. Most nicer clubs have accepted the advice and have become even more popular with groups of girls. A club or pub, even on football night is the most profitable and nicest environment if the female to male ratio is 65-75/35-35. So I leave clubs and write them off if they do not attempt to keep that ratio or better. The girls do not need men, ( but most like men), since they usually have better jobs than men their own age, more likely to own an apartment free and clear and travel internationally.
Men do not really become mature enough for serious relationship until their 30s in most societies. That is part genetics and part from being a "patriarchal" society in name only so little boys are spoiled rotten by grand mothers, moms, sisters and teachers and grew up thinking women are there to take care of them. But it also makes men very dependent on the approval of their mothers and grand mothers, and girlfriends. Putin would not make a major decision without running it by his mother. The women hold the society together so it is more like a partial matriarchal society where the choices a man makes are given to him by a female. Overall the men are very polite, well educated and have strong emotional bonds with their buddies and mothers. Most are genuinely nice people, generous and considerate who do have higher educations but the women are just 5-10 years ahead of them in maturity, career, assets etc.
I just like hanging out with the girls, but guys really want to be my friend, especially at 20-28 y.o. To show how fun loving and humorous they can be, I have been going to clubs, bars and music venues off and on since 1976 in the USSR/Russia and never seen a fight. You could call someone a demeaning word and the most expected response is laughter and an offer to buy you a drink, after the give a hearty handshake or hug, and then saying "yeah, that is what my gf says also, must be true". The most difficult issue with dealing with young men in a bar is getting away from them and not toasting anymore. Except for the poor students who drink by the canal or river, and try to sneak in to clubs past face control, it is rare to see a drunk.

The image of Russians is of being major alkies but the total alcohol consumption per capita is less than the EU average and 1/3 of Luxembourg and 1/2 of Finns. In rural regions where older men have no jobs and they are depressed, drunks are common which means, to have that low average total, the major population centers are much less prone to drinking. Wine and beer dominate now. With Scotch, and American style whiskies gaining popularity. Scotch is very expensive to that probably limits its consumption. University students do not binge drink on weekends like in UK and US. They grew up with access to beer legally so the forbidden fruit allure is just not there. Also, a pint of Guinness being $13, their favorite drink in pubs, goes through their socializing budget pretty fast.

So....yeah, the girls are more hot than not, and nice, fun loving, responsible and just really nice people, even if they were not hot. Going to any park or strolling lane and see more really attractive girls walking with their GFs, almost always in stylish coordinated accessories, and HIGH heel even in a grassy park, and there is no such thing as being overdressed, with rhinestone or metallic party dresses, on a pleasant Sunday afternoon, walking slowly arm in arm with their GF talking and walking like models with grace and poise, as if born in 10cm heels, rigid elbows back, shoulders back catwalk that makes them look taller and jaw dropping.
Young teen boys will to walk along side or backwards facing them but they are just amused with a giggle. It is funny, the 14-15 year old boys trying to meet 20 year old girls. I asked a friend why she did not tell then that she was in conversation with her GF and that she could not interrupt. She said it is courtship training and dismissing them coldly would hurt their feelings. It was better to not bruise their egos even if it meant not enjoying the conversation with her best friend. I gave her a big hug and said, "now I see why you are so nice to me, not wanting to hurt my feelings" Every time she calls or I call her to see if she would like to go out, the joke is repeated, she might send a SMS "hurt feelings?" meaning "are you ready for another soothing of your feelings". It is more than an inside joke, she is a master massage therapist.
Life is good.

[ewd]

I don’t particularly give much thought to the opinions of those who are “experts” in subjects that are highly subjective and dependant on individual sensory perception and personal opinion. No two people’s taste buds or thought processes are the same. I rate things such as wine, food, music (and women!) based on my own personal tastes, likes, and dislikes, not what other people may like or find attractive or appealing. A perfect example for me is hot spicy food. While others may love spicy heat, it does absolutely nothing for me other than diminish the taste. Eating spicy hot food is like sticking a hot match on my tongue, with the same taste result. The only hot spicy flavors that appeal to me are garlic and horseradish. For some strange unknown reason, I love both. As far as the French people go, I will admit I am generalizing my experiences. Even they can be different, when you get to know them personally, and they get to know you. I was pretty much referring to how the French commonly react to people at first contact, before even taking the time to know someone as an individual. To immediately act towards a complete stranger with arrogance and condescension as a normal response pattern is a fairly good indicator of a society in general.

Maybe if they had Girl Scouts selling Samoans, they would have a better attitude. 25 yr old Girl Scouts in French Maid dresses could sell a ton of Samoans to perfect strangers.

[Enzo]

They cruise the neighborhood selling cookies door to door. I once had a young girl come to my door and asked if I'd like to buy some Girl Scout cookies. I said yes I would. She asked what flavor i wanted, and I said, "Oh, I though that WAS the flavor."




(Thank you, I'll be here all week)

[km6xz]

If put into perspective, those people you meet if not hanging out for an extended period, renting an apartment, you are but one of 70,000,000 foreigners visiting Paris and the surrounding region yearly, so being the most impacted tourist destination in the world it is hard to find normal, non-tourist industry-employed people. That is 17 times the number who visit St Petersburg each season, while being a smaller city than SPb. That is more foreign tourist total visiting the US scattered around the 50 states in 2012.

I would be a little impatient also after translating for the million'th visitor. The concentration of visitors in Paris and surrounding region is orders of magnitude than the concentration of any destination in the US. And most of those hordes of visitors come in two peak seasons. At any given time in Paris in late spring, the random stranger you meet is a foreign tourist since more foreign visitors are there in the same locale as total population of French citizens present in the city.
Easy to get to the heart of the problem! Get away from tourist areas, visit some small villages and rent an apartment or cottage for a month and appear to be normal. That small village will have many centuries of interesting history and a bit different culture than the mega commercial centers.
Trade homes for a month, they come visit Hawaii or the Grand Canyon using your home as a travel base and you visit by living in their home. There are many home exchange organizations. It is a popular way of bypassing the tourist system and belong there for a month or so.

Show some interest in their culture and town by researching first so it shows you care about the answers they give.

[km6xz]

I love samosas,

Yeah, wonderful, particularly with mango chutney....

[ewd]

I have to agree with what you are saying about getting away from the tourist areas. When I was traveling extensively for my previous job, it was usually to the non-tourist areas, due to the nature of my then-career field. I would generally stay for 2-6 months in the smaller cities/towns/villages, with the resulting full immersion into the public cultures (outside of work) where I couldn’t initially speak a word of their native language. Even on weekends to the bigger cities/tourist areas, I normally did not go on the established guided tours, instead I would go off on my own to see the sights and to hang out where the locals did. I’ve met many people and made a few friends along the way and learned smattering colloquial tidbits of multiple languages.

But I still think the French would have a much better attitude if they had Samoan cookies. Sold by 25 yr old French Maids.

[ewd]

After looking up Samosa with your Wiki link, I realized I have had them before. Yes, they were good as I recall. That was always my problem with trying all kinds of food in a lot of foreign countries. It may have been good, but I can never remember what it was called (or know what was in it)!

[Steve Conner]

I was all ready to move to St. Petersburg until I heard $13 for a pint of Guinness.

Yes, there have been a few alliances between Scotland and France against the English. Also, I was in Brittany which thinks it has more in common with Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall than the rest of France.

The odd thing is that the West of Scotland loves Americana. Elvis impersonators, classic rock and country music on the radio, and a big Harley Davidson dealership in Glasgow. I think this is true of a lot of places. American culture was the first to use the mass media to promote itself, so rock music and the images of Hollywood movies got into our heads first.

Going full circle, on a recent business trip to Boston, the lady who ran the hotel restaurant thought Glasgow was in Russia.

[eschertron]

Going full circle, on a recent business trip to Boston, the lady who ran the hotel restaurant thought Glasgow was in Russia.

Yer brogue must be really thick to be mistaken for a Russian accent!

[J M Fahey]

^^^ fully agree, and it happened to me personally.

I made the roots searching "peregrination to Ireland" and headed to Galway, the County where the Faheys come from.
So much so, that there is s small town colquially called "Fahey Town" or "Fahey's village" because everybody there is named ... well ... you imagine.

Well, it was a dissappointment: Galway is a nice port city, full of life and action ..... and as American as can be.

Burger joints everywhere, mini golf courses, pubs with rock bands, shops with cheap generic Tourist stuff, the works.

It's not Paris by any means , and people told me "we get lots of Tourists, *all* of them come "because Grandpa was Irish", and after the initial thrilling "discovery" trip, the novelty wears out real fast, so to get them to come back year after year, they are offered standard Turist attractions.

My disappointment was visible, and the kind people I met there suggested: "forget Galway, go to the Aran islands where they still live the old way"

I was **thrilled**: travelled there in a fishing boat, rented a small dark room in a 16th Century stone house, shared regular Family meals with the owners, was driven everywhere in a decrepit old Ford car, straight out from a Humphrey Bogart movie, steamed myself in a small Pub, listening to a 3 piece band made out of fiddle, banjo, and a crazy guy which played some weird pipes (imagine a bagpipe without the bag) and played percussion on broken bottles, old cans, whatever, using spoons as drumsticks.

And no, Guinness was not 16 Dollars a pint

The Arans "old style" life:

[Steve Conner]

If you want to get in touch with your Irish roots, you must watch Father Ted!

[ewd]

While on one of my several extended work assignments to the UK, I flew up to Glasgow for a 4 day Thanksgiving weekend (in 1996 or 1997??). Thoroughly enjoyed it, had haggis for my Thanksgiving dinner, just to try something different. The area definitely was American-friendly (at least at that time), heard a lot of rock n' roll in the pubs, met a lot of friendly people. Drove around the surrounding countryside a bit to try to see as much outside of the city as I could squeeze in. Particularly liked Stirling and Coatbridge, where my family originated from and where I still have many distant cousins (in Coatbridge).

But they didn't have any Samoan Girl Scout cookies there, either.

[J M Fahey]

qwertyuiop

[g1]

qwertyuiop

Care to explain or are you just testing your keyboard?