help with my twin reverb

[popoahi]

hey guy's,

I just bought a blackface twin for $400.00 and it sounded beautiful...

I say sounded cause the previous owner put in a plastic power on/off switch and it just broke so I called this guy who repairs amps to put in a original type toggle switch and also change the power chord. ( the previous owner put in a yellow ugly looking power chord). I want a black original look chord..

do these changes suggest something that it may have a problem with the electrical system??? power switch/power chord???

before the switch broke I got to play with it for a few days and it's sound was beautiful!!! but then thats the main reason I bought it?

anyway my main reason is that I'd like to see if I can find out the year it was made? all I could find is part of a paper sticker on the bottom left side that say's it was made in Fullerton and part of what looks like a serial number....
what other ways can I find out more info?
some books say it's nearly impossible to tell on the 60's blackface models and/or another one says you can use the serial number if you have a 2 letters along with the numbers? I have only one alphabet letter along with the serial numbers...

looks like someone was going to paint the foot switch as it's color is sanded off.... what color and type of paint was on the original??? (gloss, wrinkle, hi-gloss etc.)??? and about th 2 metal strips on the top of the amp chrome, painted, ??) these were sanded too... is there a way to easily remove these strips, side stands, and the handle If it needs to be re-chromed???

I did buy this amp from a the most reputable independent guitar/amp store in town....

thanks, popoahi

[Tom Phillips]

...I just bought a blackface twin for $400.00 and it sounded beautiful...

I say sounded cause the previous owner put in a plastic power on/off switch and it just broke so I called this guy who repairs amps to put in a original type toggle switch and also change the power chord. ( the previous owner put in a yellow ugly looking power chord). I want a black original look chord..

do these changes suggest something that it may have a problem with the electrical system?...

No. But it does suggest that the work was done by someone unfamiliar with Fender amps.

...anyway my main reason is that I'd like to see if I can find out the year it was made? all I could find is part of a paper sticker on the bottom left side that say's it was made in Fullerton and part of what looks like a serial number....
what other ways can I find out more info?
some books say it's nearly impossible to tell on the 60's blackface models and/or another one says you can use the serial number if you have a 2 letters along with the numbers? I have only one alphabet letter along with the serial numbers...

looks like someone was going to paint the foot switch as it's color is sanded off.... what color and type of paint was on the original??? (gloss, wrinkle, hi-gloss etc.)??? and about th 2 metal strips on the top of the amp chrome, painted, ??) these were sanded too... is there a way to easily remove these strips, side stands, and the handle If it needs to be re-chromed? ...

All these issues taken together are unusual. Can you post photos of the amp? There are lots of date codes on various parts. If you post photos of the numbers on each of the transformers, assuming they are original, then we can tell you the year the amp was made. A gut shot will also tell us the condition and the true vintage of the amp. (See next comment)

...I did buy this amp from a the most reputable independent guitar/amp store in town...

Then that dealer should have been able to answer most of the above questions when selling you the amp. Given the $400 price I suspect that you have a BF re-issue or a counterfeit amp. Photos will quickly clear this up.

Tom

[Leo_Gnardo]

Aloha popoahi! Where are you on the islands? One of my favorite places in the world!

Switches & cables do fail with age. Best to replace with like-original OR improved-quality parts. A grounded AC cable is a must. Who likes getting shocks. You can get some idea of the year of manufacture by reading the date codes on original capacitors if they are still in the amp. A little less easy to see & decode, date codes on the back of the potentiometers. Also, Fender often put a number-stamp in ink inside the chassis. Usually it's black ink, sometimes white or even silver. The last 2 numbers are the year of chassis manufacture. There's also a list of serial numbers by year. At one time the article with these was on the internet but seems to have disappeared within the last couple years. I copied the article into my computer memory so if you care to let us know I can match that to my list ASAP.

If yours is the 'authentic item', not a reissue, it would be a very good idea to replace all the high voltage filter capacitors plus the bias filter caps. Electroytic caps beyond 30 years old are in danger of failure. Take a look in that "bathtub" under the chassis. If the caps in there are dated 70's or earlier, should be replaced. You may find murky-looking stuff leaking out the ends of these caps - sure sign of imminent failure. Don't neglect the bias filter cap. If this fails, it's easy to wreck the output tubes fast. And have you checked the fuse to make sure it's the proper value? First thing I do when I look at an amp. You wouldnt' believe the pile of 10 15 20 and 30 amp fuses I've removed, plus bits of 12 ga copper romex wire and wads of aluminum foil. A 3 amp slow blow fuse in a Twin is just about right.

[popoahi]

aloha Leo,
I'm currently living at the family home in manoa valley in honolulu re-modeling to sell need the dollars........ will be moving back to upcountry maui asap..
thanks for the tips, when I take it to the repair guy I'll have him check the stuff you recommend...
looks like this amp is going to cost me lot's of money? I don't want this to be a hole in my wallet... is it worth spending the money
to change the stuff you said??? I'm thinking just play it till it blows?
I just like the sound it gave me but don't you think I should buy a reissue instead?
how much is it going to cost to change all the stuff you stated? if it's more than a few hundred bucks I dont know if I shud spend the bucks?
better to buy a new amp don't U think?
I know this is not a reissue you can tell just but looking at the corrosion and It would be pretty hard to go and age the paper sticker stuff like the one that shows the schematic's (the tubes on the lower left inside the amp) I mean who would go do all this for 400 bucks???
and the store owner is a very honest guy....and also from what little is left of the serial number it jives...
I mean how much is this amp worth if it's a real early 60's blackface? would you spend all the money and change the things you mentioned?
not just from the view point of just loving the sound,,, just the cost of the parts must be what a few hundred dollars or more???
like fixing the transmission and air conditioner on a 1966 ford pinto???? you know what I'm saying? how much do I spend? shud I hve just bought a re-issue? you're probably saying no re-issue? ha, ha.
BTW did you live here whats your connection to hawaii?
thanks so much for your help..
lucky I'm a drummer no tubes and capacitors..

[popoahi]

aloha Tom,

seems you may be right about the previous owner when he repaired the things I mentioned..
but no this is a real early- mid 60's blackface...
why do you say it might not be for $400??? what would you say it should have sold for?

and I will try to post some pic's of it.. just got a new phone so I'll try.. I've never tried to post pic's before so it might take a few days
to figure out how to do it??
going to drop it at the repair guys place so I'll have him get all the serial no# and stuff Leo mentioned....

so appreciate your helping me,

[Tom Phillips]

...this is a real early- mid 60's blackface...
why do you say it might not be for $400? what would you say it should have sold for?...

I said that because even Silverface Twin Reverb amps have risen to much higher prices. I wouldn't expect a dealer to sell a BF TR for lass than $1,000. I good condition, it would command a much higher price.
Apparently you got an excellent deal. Or maybe you have a time machine and went 20 years back in time.
Mahalo,
Tom

[Leo_Gnardo]

aloha Leo, I'm currently living at the family home in manoa valley in honolulu re-modeling to sell need the dollars........ will be moving back to upcountry maui asap. thanks for the tips, when I take it to the repair guy I'll have him check the stuff you recommend...looks like this amp is going to cost me lot's of money? I don't want this to be a hole in my wallet... is it worth spending the money to change the stuff you said??? I'm thinking just play it till it blows? I just like the sound it gave me but don't you think I should buy a reissue instead?
how much is it going to cost to change all the stuff you stated? if it's more than a few hundred bucks I dont know if I shud spend the bucks?
better to buy a new amp don't U think?
I know this is not a reissue you can tell just but looking at the corrosion and It would be pretty hard to go and age the paper sticker stuff like the one that shows the schematic's (the tubes on the lower left inside the amp) I mean who would go do all this for 400 bucks???
and the store owner is a very honest guy....and also from what little is left of the serial number it jives...
I mean how much is this amp worth if it's a real early 60's blackface? would you spend all the money and change the things you mentioned?
not just from the view point of just loving the sound,,, just the cost of the parts must be what a few hundred dollars or more???
like fixing the transmission and air conditioner on a 1966 ford pinto???? you know what I'm saying? how much do I spend? shud I hve just bought a re-issue? you're probably saying no re-issue? ha, ha.
BTW did you live here whats your connection to hawaii?
thanks so much for your help..
lucky I'm a drummer no tubes and capacitors..

If I lived in Spreckelsville,
I'd never leave
I'd be there still
Just a short hike up the hill
Beautiful downtown Spreckelsville.

Sounds like a place in Pennsylvania, but it's just up the hill from the airport. The big one.

I imagine your Maui spot is a bit further up the hill, like Makawao or 'round the corner a bit. It ain't perfect but it looks like as close as I'll ever see to heaven. I've been a bit closer - all the way to the top - very impressive - but ya can't live there.

Fender started issuing Blackies in '64. Lots o rust I'm sure due to the salty damp air. I got a Bassman from North Carolina once. Rustiest amp I've ever seen. Played thousands of shag dance parties on the beach. Sounded mighty sweet after I got 'er all working - replaced filter caps etc. as I suggested. Sold it to one of my customers & he's happy as could be with it, Studio musician - so he's aware of good quality tone as well as absence of unwanted noises plus @ 10 years of reliability so far.

It IS worth getting your Twin all-the-way fixed. I know, getting anything done in Hawaii costs double the price "in the 48." When I visited the local musicians told me they had to ship their repairs over the water, wait, pay shipping both ways OW! And ordering in parts, shipping is double the rate on the mainland. OTOH you'll have a genuine working-order classic that won't blow up like a Pinto. Tom was probably thinking $400 would be a fair price for a clapped-out rusty reissue. Well, condition does matter to collectors but if your amp helps you earn a living. I wouldn't chance "playing it 'til it blows." Some failures have a domino effect - loss of bias due to a cap gone bad that could have been replaced with a $2 or $3 part, causing uncontrolled current to flow thru the output tubes, overheating them and making them useless, while having too large a fuse so it didn't blow in time to prevent wrecking the output and/or power transformers - and that's an expense you definitely don't ever want to have to pay. $400 acquisition price would be a giveaway on the mainland. You got a bargain. You "could" buy a reissue, maybe not need the maintenance we've mentioned. But fix yours up and you have the real thing, not a reissue. And the difference in price - by the time you have the maintenance done - will likely more or less match the price of a reissue used. Unless your repair guy is a real chiseler I'd expect about a $150-200 charge for a basic hi voltage & bias cap replacement, plus general checkup, maintenance, & setting bias properly, and that's including "island surcharge." You'll certainly be paying less than a reissue new. If it sounded good as you said, chances are your speakers are good, tubes too. In damp salty air the tube pins could be getting corroded. I clean mine up with 600-grit sandpaper, available at auto parts and hardware. Some people complain "oh the plating!" Well if your metal is covered with fuzzy grey/tan crud, there's your plating. Turned into plating-oxide. Sand that crap off and enjoy good noise free conduction. Repeat as necessary.

Drummers, no caps resistors transformers etc, but all too often no volume control either. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Some do - and they're worth their weight in gold.

FWIW I've done music shows on Oahu, Maui and Kawai'i 2000-2005. I'm not one to hide out at the hotel, ordering room service. I hike out and have a look at whatever I can find on foot. Plus that amazing ride up the mountain in Maui. Bit too far to walk, that one. If I had the time though... and there are those horse "hikes" up the hill too. That's on my "to do" list. Also seeing the east end of the island.

[popoahi]

I forgot to say my blackface was on consignment at this guitar shop..
originally owner was asking 500.00 but I noticed it was in the shop for
over a month so I made my offer and it was accepted. so after the stores
commision owner got much less than the original price he was asking.
also maybe here in Hawaii stuff is valued differently??? first for me buying
something like this. I've bought a couple of tiny amps a fender and this tiny 10"
gibson amp, a FM65 that I got taken advantage on (once it gets hot sound cuts out)
AC15 new from another store, offered 600 out the door and got it plus a free foot switch
been trying to get a vinyl cover for it and my twin reverb but nada, punched it in at MF
and nothing shows there too. wow short answer turned into a short history..

[Chuck H]

popoahi, it's definitely worth spending the $$$ to get the amp functioning in top form. As mentioned that requires a check up followed by any parts that need replacement. With an already functioning amp that bill shouldn't exceed $250. Cosmetic issues could actually cost more. You should do some quick research and figure out what you might be able to do for yourself. Replacing things like the chrome chassis mount strips, tilt legs and face or back plates isn't that bad because there are many copies and clones as well as the actual reissue model. The parts are readily available and don't command much of a premium. Some image searching should reveal the finish on original footswitches. Things like grill cloth and tolex will be harder and cost a lot more to shop out. It's up to you how far you want to take it. As mentioned, a BF TR in good original condition can command an obscene amount. Price degrades rapidly as condition degrades and originality is lost. But there's a line to be drawn and I would say that an original badly rusted and/or de-plating (or sanded) chrome part isn't going to add original value and you should replace them at your discretion. A BF TR that has a mediocre restoration with repro trim, finishes and such electronics as required maintenance would easily command four times what you paid. Perhaps more. The caveat being that it would need to have original transformers and speakers and the tube chart would need to be whole. I don't know how much of that criteria your amp meets so I can't speak to the actual value of restoring it.

[km6xz]

These are very minor refits, you can do it yourself if you practice soldering on something else. Buying a decent soldering iron, solder, flux if there is any hint of corrosion.....oxide usually is identified by metal surfaces appearing dull grey, and $30-40 in capacitors, $5-7 for a line cord, a new switch for $5, a can of De-Oxit for $10 is all a good investment. It is not needed diagnostics, so why pay $200 for labor you could do yourself in 1-2 hours? If there were problems with it that needed to be diagnosed, that is when you need a tech, provided you have a competent tech.....the odds are poor to randomly find a skilled and knowledgeable amp tech.
I have seen more amps diminished in value by the work of bad techs than owners who have a stake in the outcome. Working on a 50 year amp is not rocket science, in fact it is less technical and sophisticated than anything in your home. Beside guidance here and videos on YouTube, it should be easy.

And, yes, it is worth sinking a little money in it. Even at its age it will outlast most brand new amplifiers far into the future.

Where Upcountry? I used to have a vacation home on the south western coast for about 10 years and used to pasture two horses up on the mountain where we used to ride or into the crater. They were cow horses since that is what we bred and trained for cutting at the California ranch. I got tired of the beach life, sort of boring after a short time but loved higher elevations. The weather on the south coast is boring also, no seasons, no rain....

[Chuck H]

.....the odds are poor to randomly find a skilled and knowledgeable amp tech.
I have seen more amps diminished in value by the work of bad techs than owners who have a stake in the outcome. Working on a 50 year amp is not rocket science, in fact it is less technical and sophisticated than anything in your home. Beside guidance here and videos on YouTube, it should be easy.

Good call. I was going to suggest it actually, but the OP didn't seem interested and that's often a red flag. But indeed, the normal stuff like replacing capacitors on an eyelet board and cleaning contacts is more mechanical in nature than electronics. If the OP is up for it I thinks it's an excellent suggestion.

[popoahi]

hey aleo,

amps now with the repair tech now... found out this guy was the repair tech for the guitar store where I bought the amp...replacing the power chord and main power toggle switch... but will mention the other things you guys have mentioned to check or replace...also asked him to get photo's to post....
tech said he feels that this is a looks like a genuine BF by looking at it but will know for sure when he opens it up...

things have change so much since 2005 population has doubled,,,, more qualified tech's available,,, most stores even stock lots of parts... you can walk in and get sets of tubes over night other parts via fed-ex at reasonable prices...
only thing you won't like the traffic! morning and afternoon traffic jams are "normal".... the music scene is booming... I even went back to the union AFM local 677..... mick fleetwood just opened his new restaurant in lahaina....pat benatar lives in Hana and did a concert for maui a little while ago which was great!!! but you know, even more music celebrities have moved here or have homes here..
well just want my BF done and back to me.... I just think it was a steal??? I hope I'm right..

BTW you mentioned a bassman??? one of my friends is selling his bassman and fender precision bass (kinda old bass) for 500.00..... even though I just bought a yamaha bass along with a yamaha 16 track mixer, 15" spkrs/stands 12" monitor, one mic all cables, etc all for 450....I think I still am going to buy the bassman and bass? he's going thru some hard time so he's offering it to friends at this price.... when it rains it pours seems to be quite true..... before I got the yamaha stuff I been wanting a fender bass and was looking and researching the bassman amps.... weird?? I must be in the twilight zone*........... I've been wanting to get the Hammond XK3 c1 thinking I cud play it on the BF........... the way things hve been going tomorrow when I open my front door the Hammond will be there? ha,ha.......
popo.

[Chuck H]

DAMN! If you wanted to get jiggy with flipping stuff you could make a tidy profit for as long as your luck holds Get the actual model information for that Bassman and Precision bass and look up "sold" prices on that big auction site. I think you're about to acquire more stuff and unload the Yamaha!

[popoahi]

aloha chuck,

I dont know of any auction sites except ebay?? I need a PA like the yamaha,, 15" spkrs are like new, only the mixer is kinda old...even the bass is like new still had that plastic protective cover on some parts...
but I am going to try and get the bassman and fender bass... rather have the precision than the Yamaha bass... don't know much about the bassman amp?
the store I bought my BF TR had just a bassman amp no bass guitar for 700.00 so my friends amp N precision bass sounds like a deal....
only thing my wife is getting on my case about collecting all this stuff? she doesn't see things the way I do... I see the prices on new precisions and they do cost $........this store had a couple of musicman amps that I at one time I really wanted but glad I waited.....
BTW what's "JIGGY" ???

popo

[Chuck H]

Jiggy is a slang term for actively participating in something, busy and focused at a task. I got it from a bad song about a decade ago and used the term to make fun of the song. Then it stuck and now no one knows what the hell I'm talking about when I say it!

You need the model specifics on the Bassman and Precision bass because there were a lot of models over the years and some are worth $10,000 while others are worth $300.

Peace at home is paramount! Otherwise you can't collect anything that doesn't fit in the doghouse! That's why if you decide to purchase the Precision bass you need to agree to flip the Yamaha bass. Even if you like them both. How many basses can you play after all? And there's no outlets in a doghouse.