Searching for the best Kbd layout of them all?

[jjj]

On one hand, if an instrument is easy to play, and another instrument is difficult to play, why make life hard by choosing the difficult one? It's a valid point.

Yes... thats exactly what I try to get at! No wonder it made me think that people, who prefer to choose the hard & difficult way, must suffer from some weird masochist mentality. My philosophical reasoning favors minimization of suffering, which translates into quality of life!

...piano music sounds the way it does because it's played on pianos.

True, for it is a percussion instrument by nature and the accordion sustains its sound. Yet, don't you think buttons could replace the keys? The buttons could be made a bit bigger (if necessary), but think of the advantage such a compact piano layout would offer... namely, its keyboard uniformity, shorter arm movements and a hand span of four to five octaves!

I think Dick Dale summed it up best when he said: "I can play any instrument and make you think that I went to the school of Juillard, because I play from my heart." That's what it's about, not bickering over keyboard layouts.

Sure, musical talent, combined with great dexterity abilities gets you over even the worst hurdles... yet, most hobby musicians are contented with mediocre musical abilities and so, an easier to learn and play keyboard layout gets everyone further; who knows, maybe even further than most of us ever expected! Professional accordion players assured me that I have what it takes to make it. Some hope!

[jjj]

Since most of you are accomplished Musos, I might have a chance to find out what button keyboard layout these virtuosos are playing. Is it the C-system, the B-system or a Bayan ?? (It surely is not the Wicki layout.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lxrZ5ey9h8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNJrqaNEmuA

[jjj]

I don't believe that there isn't a thing, such as "the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Could it rather be that true or are those, who say that, merely ignorant about the facts?
The concertina expert good Richard Morse and the fact that the Thummer and Jammer (not available yet) people use the W/H layout gave me some kind of certainty, because my music theory isn't good enough to scientifically verify, which of all the layouts offers the attributes I'm after. On the other hand, I imagine that it must be possible to work out once and for all. Once that has been established it's then left to individual preference with how much less one is willing to put up. wink. gif

Maybe it depends on what kind of melodies one aims to play? In my case it will be just about everything that sounds great and has an interesting melody.

From what I can see the W/H allows a greater hand span than the C/B-system. The W/H has also a more logical layout, because the incidentals are nicely put aside, yet easily reachable, whereas the C/B- system layout's incidentals are also easily reachable, yet introduce an element of irregularity into its layout. Thus, my type of innovative (Klavarskribo-like) notation would be impossible to implement.
Of course any button keyboard is still easier to learn & play (than the zebra piano layout), because of it's keyboard's uniformity. Seen in this context one could say, the Wicki is the keyboard layout with the most uniformity!! That should be good enough to call it "the best or the easiest to learn & play layout of them all!"

[jjj]

I believe that there's such a thing, as "the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Could it be that those, who deny it are merely ignorant about the facts?
The concertina expert good Richard Morse and the fact that the Thummer and Jammer (not available yet) people use the W/H layout gave me some kind of certainty, because my music theory isn't good enough to scientifically verify, which of all the layouts offers the attributes I'm after. On the other hand, I imagine that it must be possible to work out once and for all. Once that has been established it's then left to individual preference with how much less one is willing to put up. wink. gif

Maybe it depends on what kind of melodies one aims to play? In my case it will be just about everything that sounds great and has an interesting melody.

From what I can see the W/H allows a greater hand span than the C/B-system. The W/H has also a more logical layout, because the incidentals are nicely put aside, yet easily reachable, whereas the C/B- system layout's incidentals are also easily reachable, yet introduce an element of irregularity into its layout. Thus, my type of innovative (Klavarskribo-like) notation would be impossible to implement.
Of course any button keyboard is still easier to learn & play (than the zebra piano layout), because of it's keyboard's uniformity. Seen in this context one could say, the Wicki is the keyboard layout with the most uniformity!! That should be good enough to call it "the best or the easiest to learn & play layout of them all!"

[jjj]

I believe that there's such a thing, as "the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Could it be that those denying it are merely ignorant about the facts?
The concertina expert good Richard Morse and the fact that the Thummer and Jammer (not available yet) people use the W/H layout gave me some kind of certainty, because my music theory isn't good enough to scientifically verify, which of all the layouts offers the attributes I'm after. On the other hand, I imagine that it must be possible to work out once and for all. Once that has been established it's then left to individual preference with how much less one is willing to put up. wink. gif

Maybe it depends on what kind of melodies one aims to play? In my case it will be just about everything that sounds great and has an interesting melody.

From what I can see the W/H allows a greater hand span than the C/B-system. The W/H has also a more logical layout, because the incidentals are nicely put aside, yet easily reachable, whereas the C/B- system layout's incidentals are also easily reachable, yet introduce an element of irregularity into its layout. Thus, my type of innovative (Klavarskribo-like) notation would be impossible to implement.
Of course any button keyboard is still easier to learn & play (than the zebra piano layout), because of it's keyboard's uniformity. Seen in this context one could say, the Wicki is the keyboard layout with the most uniformity!! That should be good enough to call it "the best or the easiest to learn & play layout of them all!"

[jjj]

I believe that there's such a thing, as "the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Could it be that those denying it are merely ignorant about to assess the various keyboards scientifically?
The concertina expert good Richard Morse and the fact that the Thummer and Jammer (not available yet) people use the W/H layout gave me some kind of certainty, because my music theory isn't good enough to scientifically verify, which of all the layouts offers the attributes I'm after. On the other hand, I imagine that it must be possible to work out once and for all. Once that has been established it's then left to individual preference with how much less one is willing to put up. wink. gif

Maybe it depends on what kind of melodies one aims to play? In my case it will be just about everything that sounds great and has an interesting melody.

From what I can see the W/H allows a greater hand span than the C/B-system. The W/H has also a more logical layout, because the incidentals are nicely put aside, yet easily reachable, whereas the C/B- system layout's incidentals are also easily reachable, yet introduce an element of irregularity into its layout. Thus, my type of innovative (Klavarskribo-like) notation would be impossible to implement.
Of course any button keyboard is still easier to learn & play (than the zebra piano layout), because of it's keyboard's uniformity. Seen in this context one could say, the Wicki is the keyboard layout with the most uniformity!! That should be good enough to call it "the best or the easiest to learn & play layout of them all!"

[jjj]

I believe that there's such a thing, as "the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Could it be that those denying it are merely ignorant about how to assess the various keyboards scientifically?
The concertina expert good Richard Morse and the fact that the Thummer and Jammer (not available yet) people use the W/H layout gave me some kind of certainty, because my music theory isn't good enough to scientifically verify, which of all the layouts offers the attributes I'm after. On the other hand, I imagine that it must be possible to work out once and for all. Once that has been established it's then left to individual preference with how much less one is willing to put up. wink. gif

Maybe it depends on what kind of melodies one aims to play? In my case it will be just about everything that sounds great and has an interesting melody.

From what I can see the W/H allows a greater hand span than the C/B-system. The W/H has also a more logical layout, because the incidentals are nicely put aside, yet easily reachable, whereas the C/B- system layout's incidentals are also easily reachable, yet introduce an element of irregularity into its layout. Thus, my type of innovative (Klavarskribo-like) notation would be impossible to implement.
Of course any button keyboard is still easier to learn & play (than the zebra piano layout), because of it's keyboard's uniformity. Seen in this context one could say, the Wicki is the keyboard layout with the most uniformity!! That should be good enough to call it "the best or the easiest to learn & play layout of them all!"

[jjj]

I believe that there's such a thing, as "the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Could it be that those denying it are merely ignorant about how to assess the various keyboards scientifically?
The fact that concertina expert good Richard Morse recommended the Wicki and the Thummer and Jammer people use the W/H layout gave me some kind of certainty, because my music theory isn't good enough to scientifically verify, which of all the layouts offers the attributes I'm after. On the other hand, I imagine that it must be possible to work out once and for all. Once that has been established it's then left to individual preference with how much less one is willing to put up.

Maybe it depends on what kind of melodies one aims to play? In my case it will be just about everything that sounds great and has an interesting melody.

From what I can see the W/H allows a greater hand span than the C/B-system. The W/H has also a more logical layout, because the incidentals are nicely put aside, yet easily reachable, whereas the C/B- system layout's incidentals are also easily reachable, yet introduce an element of irregularity into its layout. Thus, my type of innovative (Klavarskribo-like) notation would be impossible to implement.
Of course any button keyboard is still easier to learn & play (than the zebra piano layout), because of it's keyboard's uniformity. Seen in this context one could say, the Wicki is the keyboard layout with the most uniformity!! That should be good enough to call it "the best or the easiest to learn & play layout of them all!"

[jjj]

(Only now I discovered yet another imperfection... but since the good forum's webmaster closed the edit option, I'm forced to write it here.)
Sure, musical talent, combined with great dexterity abilities gets you over even the worst hurdles... yet, since most hobby musicians have to put up with mediocre musical abilities, an easier to learn and play keyboard layout is welcome. In fact it could even prevent learners from being discouraged by undue complexity and might get them further; who knows, maybe even further than they ever expected?! For example, professional accordion players assured me that I have what it takes to make it. Some hope!

[jjj]

On my mission to find the easiest to learn & play keyboard layout I only ever considered the W/H, the C-System (easier than Bayan) and Janko to replace the awkward zebra piano layout. Yesterday I tried to place a few chord patterns onto the Wicki layout and was shocked to discover how difficult the fingering of four note chords were!
Even then, when my keyboard is going to have 20 mm in diameter
buttons, it will be pretty hard learn 4 note chord fingerings.
In fact the W/H fingering is even more complicated than the C-system's fingering!
In this regard the lousy zebra piano is ergonomically better off.
These facts force me to reconsider the Janko layout, for it has both worlds:
the advantage of layout uniformity and ergonomic comfort. The
Janko's disadvantage is its hand span of only 1 1/2 octave, yet then again the zebra has even less hand span and sound O.K., too.
At last I'm able to start getting the facts right:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Wicki:
1) Hard to learn the fingering patterns of 4 note chords.
2) I have to learn from the whole system from "0"
3) Easy to implement Klavarskribo type notation
4) 4 to 5 octave hand span!
5) Super fast access speed
===================
C-System:
1) Button fingering easier than W/H
2) I have to learn from the whole system from "0"
3) Very difficult to implement Klavarskribo type notation
4) Nearly 2 octave hand span!
5) Harder to learn than W/H (more irregular)
6) Fast access speed
===================
Janko:
1) Key fingering ergonomically ideal
2) Faster to learn, for I already play the piano accordion
3) Ideal to implement Klavarskribo type notation
4) Main disadvantage: hand span of only 1 1/2 octave
and slower access speed
5) Easy to adapt to any Synth (no electronics involved)
===================

It would be nice if you great experts could constructively scrutinize, enrich or amend my gathered facts. Thx

[Alex R]

[tiptoes quietly out of the room and gently closes the door]

[jjj]

I am saddened that you are unwilling to constructively scrutinize, enrich or amend my gathered facts, but you are forgiven when you are unable to help me.
Indeed, I'm in the same position and therefore pleading for help... Peace!

[Steve Conner]

Everything is a compromise. Maybe there is no best keyboard layout. How many scales could you have learnt on the "zebra" in the time you took to research all this stuff and draw all those nice diagrams?

[jjj]

Maybe there is no best keyboard layout.

Well, the Janko keyboard is already very much better than the zebra one, because it gets away with those nasty irregular zebra scales. So, that was a decisive step forward in my research, hunt and mission for the "easiest to learn & play keyboard layout". Maybe I should have stopped there, but the lure for even greener pasture made me continue my pursuit.
Now, after investigating button keyboard layouts, I finally try to sort out the pro & contra in each. Not an easy job. I thought all that has been done ages ago in here, but it doesn't look like. So, I do my best to do it myself as good I can, begging you for some assistance for which I'm very grateful.
So far I was exited about the W/H layout, until I discovered how difficult its four note finger tanglers are... I suppose that's the disadvantage of a compact keyboard layout. Janko hasn't this problem, by compromising its access speed. Yet, for hobby musicians (like me) its access speed is sufficient; top pianists don't complain, either.

How many scales could you have learnt on the "zebra" in the time you took to research all this stuff and draw all those nice diagrams?

Zebra scales learning is hard enough, but that's not the end of the learning process, because they require regular application or practicing. It's, because I don't play all scales all the time and so, those I don't play would require regular practice. That's O.K. for professional musicians; a pain in the proverbial for hobby musicians! >>> Solution: Janko, does not need all that fluff & puff! So, I should rather invest time and efforts in practicing the Janko layout... if it's that what you mean? Well, now I'm at about 88% of feeling forced into taking up the Janko, since most advantages are in favor it.

[jjj]

Since my electronics stuff is all packed up, I unpacked my Synth with the Janko keyboard on it and keep practicing the Janko layout, instead.
Maybe some of you clever brains know how to reprogram the colors of three notes for personal use. I have got an old version of Klavarskribo notation Freeware), which never expires. Albeit Janko hasn't got all the advantages of Thummer and Jammer, at least it's far superior to the zebra piano layout. I might consider creating a plug-in Janko keyboard for my Synth, as well.
Advantage: Then I can decrease the key size (to PC size) and shorten its contact time.
I.e. now my “glued on Janko adapter” has the zebra piano Kbd. length of 84cm, yet it's possible to shrink its length to a mere 67cm (13.4cm per octave).
Shortening the Kbd's length and its keying time/ length from off to on allows faster key and action access; the unique advantage of all button keyboards.
All these seemingly unimportant details help even people "with two left hands" to get the best out of their efforts to enjoy being able to play some great tunes on this type of user-friendly keyboard.
I also wrote to the Klavarskribo notation programmer to suggest the following changes to suit the Janko layout: