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  • #76
    Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
    Not much difference between bass and treble side: http://web.daddario.com/StringTensionPro/SetBuilder?set=EXL120
    http://web.daddario.com/StringTensionPro/
    String Tension Pro
    Sometimes you have to go beyond standard gauges.
    The String Tension Pro is a free, easy-to-use web application that allows you to customize, create, and compare string sets for your instrument and discover your own sound.
    Who does not know and knows that he does not know - teach him Confucius)
    Who knows and does not know that he knows - wake him Confucius)

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post

      Dan Erlewine's guitar repair books are THE reference.
      I'm sure so, & a useful link. But what Ive concluded from this, is that in order for these optimal settings to give the results expected, you might need to have a neck that is absolutely perfect. I do not know if -any- neck is absolutely perfect, unless made from composite material by computer. Wood being wood, it will do its own thing.

      I'm not saying my conclusion is correct for your gtr, but mine/ & both of them exactly the same, are alot better -not- being set at the optimal settings (in fact they may even be called 'set wrong'). But its definite they play alot better with 1mm relief (min), than with 0.009" relief. And the strings lowered to just under 2mm, rather than 2mm & just over with the .009 neck relief. No question about it, playable, not playable.

      If i found this on one neck, its likely a fault.. but the very same results on both? well, they could both have the precise same fault.. but its highly unlikely. Climate? well In have an extremely wet climate here, yes, this is the only common factor (other than both japan necks) that could be the reason.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Sea Chief View Post
        I'm not saying my conclusion is correct for your gtr, but mine/ & both of them exactly the same, are alot better -not- being set at the optimal settings (in fact they may even be called 'set wrong'). But its definite they play alot better with 1mm relief (min), than with 0.009" relief. And the strings lowered to just under 2mm, rather than 2mm & just over with the .009 neck relief. No question about it, playable, not playable.
        Just to make sure we're not switching topics here, the issue so far has been buzzing, not perceptions of 'playable' or not.
        With your lower action and increased relief, you have no buzzing anywhere on the neck?

        "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

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        • #79
          Originally posted by g1 View Post
          Just to make sure we're not switching topics here, the issue so far has been buzzing, not perceptions of 'playable' or not.
          With your lower action and increased relief, you have no buzzing anywhere on the neck?
          No, Im not saying that. I still have some buzz, but occasional & I can put up with it IE its playable.

          When I say playable or not I am referring to the buzzing mainly. When I put it in optimal setting, it has unplayably high action, & buzzing occasional still. Id prefer the lower action, so its increace the relief: this is just my gtrs.

          Much appreciate Helmholtz help- a useful ecxercise & I learnt quite a bit, maybe my necks are proven therefore to be slightly twisted.. I'm not certain.

          thanks SC

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          • #80
            maybe my necks are proven therefore to be slightly twisted
            Rising tongue(s) would be a more probable explanation for your observations. That problem is quite common.

            I haven't seen a twisted neck since the early '80s with cheap EKO or Hagström guitars.
            Since then I may have inspected and adjusted around a hundred guitar necks.
            Last edited by Helmholtz; 10-25-2020, 09:14 PM.
            - Own Opinions Only -

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post

              Rising tongue(s) would be a more probable explanation for your observations. That problem is quite common.

              I haven't seen a twisted neck since the early '80s with cheap EKO or Hagström guitars.
              Since then I may have inspected and adjusted around a hundred guitar necks.
              Hmm.. I don't see any evidence of a rising tongue, but I'll do more research on it. If I found a slight discrepency between the tiny bow on the low E side, to a dead straight siting along the top E side, isn't that evidence of a very slight twist? I must say tho finding the exact thing on both necks, absolutely mirror-image similar, does say to me its just the wound strings pulling up v. v. slightly more. But I stand to be corrected.

              Cheers Helmholtz- you've been very patient/ a very honourable virtue.

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              • #82
                Bass string tension is about 10% larger than treble string tension and this causes a slighty larger bass string relief.
                That's normal and doesn't mean a twisted neck.

                A twisted neck would be a much worse problem than a hardly visible slightly raised tongue.
                - Own Opinions Only -

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                  Bass string tension is about 10% larger than treble string tension and this causes a slighty larger bass string relief.
                  That's normal and doesn't mean a twisted neck.

                  A twisted neck would be a much worse problem than a hardly visible slightly raised tongue.
                  HiHelmholtz. Ok understood, & tallies with what I was thinking likely (tho 10% remains an arbitrary 'random' figure to me).

                  So Ive got a bit of confusion, whereby you said if I measure/ set 0.009 relied on the low E side, Id expect to see the same on the high E side. So is there a contradiction here, if I should (according to your post above) be seeing a difference, of 10%?

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                  • #84
                    IE is this 10% expected difference, actually big enough a figure to be seen (sighting down each neck top edge) ?

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                    • #85
                      It is not uncommon to find a relief difference between bass and treble side of maybe 0.1mm (0.004") in production guitars. Even 0.2mm wouldn't really mean a twisted neck. Such small differences can be eliminated by fret levelling - if necessary.

                      A really problematic/badly twisted neck might have like 1mm relief on bass side and zero relief on treble side.
                      - Own Opinions Only -

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                        It is not uncommon to find a relief difference between bass and treble side of maybe 0.1mm (0.004") in production guitars. Even 0.2mm wouldn't really mean a twisted neck. Such small differences can be eliminated by fret levelling - if necessary.

                        A really problematic/badly twisted neck might have like 1mm relief on bass side and zero relief on treble side.
                        Ive had much better results redoing it all again, I bought a feeler guage with a 0.010 & a hell of alot easier than a tiny string I could barely see. I think maybe the truss rod might have needed 'unsticking', or something.. bc now I don't see the same curve one side/ straight the high E side. So I set the high E to 0.010 and the low E, well whatever it measured at, a bit more than 0.010. So still a tiny bit of difference. Then lowered strings down again to 2mm action on low E to 2.4mm on high E. Alot better.

                        Most of the buzzing has now gone! great, I can hear & feel alot more low E string notes. I think just ok for string H above pickguard too/ liveable with. I need a new nut due to sitar sound on open high E string, & there are a few miinor 'damped' areas (but nothing suggesting a raised tonge) here and there.. but I can live happily with. The main concern of a twisted neck gone I think thank goodness.

                        The other tele neck's still a bit of a mystery, but this jazzmaster-frankenstrat's much more of a gtr. I'll do a pic.

                        Much appreciated Helmholtz. SC

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                        • #87
                          About Guitar Setup

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/229338841/Electric-Guitar-Service-Manual
                          Electric Guitar Service Manual

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/203690194/Guitar-tips
                          Setting up your Guitar To Professional Standards

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/121676533/Guitar-Repair
                          Guitar Repair

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/7111424/Electric-Guitar-Setup
                          Electric Guitar Setup

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/7264715/Fender-Squier-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar-Bass-Setup-Warranty-Sheet
                          Fender Squier - Acoustic, Electric Guitar Bass Setup

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/56561197/Elec-Gtr-Setup
                          Setting Up Your Electric Guitar

                          https://www.scribd.com/document/127134313/Gibson-Basic-Guitar-Setup
                          Gibson Basic Guitar Setup

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                          Who does not know and knows that he does not know - teach him Confucius)
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