New CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers exist!

[jason lollar]

"Nowadays some people are freaking out just because we dismantled a few WRHB's."
when you do your R+D in public someones always going to try to bust your chops!
I have some do it yourself videos on youtube- there is always some idiot every several weeks that comes along and says something stupid!
I never let anyone know anything untill its all done and ready to go.

[Tele-Bob]

That's funny. You're right. Some one will always complain not matter what's going on out there.

This project started a couple of years ago when I knew nothing about WRHB's and I was asking questions on some forums. A thread or two grew out of them and I shared everything I learned along the way in the same manner so many others shared with me. It was really cool how it all finally came together and there are a couple epic threads on other forums containing the process. It was all out in the open because of the way it evolved. It was a great experience.

[Dave Kerr]

This project started a couple of years ago when I knew nothing about WRHB's and I was asking questions on some forums. A thread or two grew out of them and I shared everything I learned along the way in the same manner so many others shared with me. It was really cool how it all finally came together and there are a couple epic threads on other forums containing the process. It was all out in the open because of the way it evolved. It was a great experience.

Well, you shared everything except whatever went into that phantom patent application, I guess.

[Tele-Bob]

Well, you shared everything except whatever went into that phantom patent application, I guess.

The patent is a dead issue. Without going into all the boring details, when this whole thing came up, we were talking about it and suddenly found ourselves referred to a patent attorney who quickly painted a rosy picture of the great potential we had. It's a little embarrassing but, we bought into it. When it finally came down to crunch time and the hard questions were asked before going into the utility phase, the attorney started to put up lots of smoke and mirrors and while there was a valid patent there, it was nothing like the original concept and the actual meat of the patent was worthless.

It's a lesson learned and fortunately, we didn't spend a lot of money on it.

On the positive side, it forced us to be extremely thorough in everything we did and ended up being an invaluable learning experience.

[soundmasterg]

The point was to re-create the original WRHB as closely as possible (within reason) because it was a good challenge. I love a good project and truly enjoy the whole process of discovery and then taking what I've learned and making it into something tangible. We now have a new guitar pickup based on a well recognized design that hasn't been manufactured in 30 years and no one else in the world is producing it. It's a unique, fun project that has taken countless hours and some investment to complete. I get a real kick of doing things like this.

Here's a couple of my scratch built guitars. I built these because I wanted a Ric 360 with an adult size neck and a 25 1/2" scale. Some will say I'm crazy expending such efforts. All I can say is, I love a good project!



These guitars took me about 8 months to complete. I had a Rickenbacker 360 and after a year of owning it, decided it was basically unplayable! So I made some templates and the rest is history. I don't sell any of the guitars I build but the guys at Rickenbacker got real tweeked over this just the same.

Nice looking clones there! The reason RIC got tweaked is because Rickenbacker has trademarks on the body shape, the headstock shape, the nameplate and it's shape, etc., and in order for them to keep their trademarks, they have to raise a stink about infringers. They protected most of their trademarks from day 1 whereas Fender and Gibson didn't. That is why there are so many Fender clones around. Rickenbacker can certainly rub some people the wrong way though for their zealousness, but it is their perogative I suppose. I got a talking to from John Hall about my RIC bass copy that I made myself too, though I'll never sell it. I have a problem with their approach when they try to trademark something that they haven't made in 40 years, and are not currently making an accurate model of that pickup, and then they try to stop others from making one.

I think their necks are playable, even the smaller and thinner ones...they just take getting used to. My biggest issue with their necks are the low frets...which is a fretjob away from playing well.

Greg

[Tele-Bob]

Greg, I agree and respect Rickenbacker's position. They have a right to their own property.

My rub with them started when I bought a brand new 360 and after a year of trying, still couldn't play it. So I called Rickenbacker and asked if they had a custom shop and if they'd make me a 360 with a wider neck. The arrogant punk on the other end of the phone laughed and asked if I was someone famous because, if I wasn't, there's no way in hell they'd make me a custom guitar at any price. He was really quite rude about it.

So I went on their forum and politely asked about some remedies for this skinny neck issue and I was told I just didn't know how to play. In the meantime, a number of other people had come forward who weren't blinded by Rickenbacker-mania and spoke up about wanting wider necks so, I started building a couple guitars and sharing my information. When I posted photos of my templates and router set-ups, John Hall got involved.

I never sell the guitars I build so it was a non-issue.

[David Schwab]

John Hall sent me an email when I suggested they should use graphite reinforcement in their bass necks so they could get them slimmer like the earlier 4001s. He rationalized that they can't do that because of a patent on the manufacture of a graphite neck from Moses Graphite, which has nothing to do with graphite reinforcement of wooden necks.

But it's his company, and he can run it as he pleases, even if it makes no sense to us. Sure, they might sell more guitars with wider necks, but judging from the wait time for a new instrument, I guess they don't need any more work than they already have. But I think there must be an efficiency issue, even though they do have CNC now, etc.

[Dave Kerr]

The patent is a dead issue. Without going into all the boring details, when this whole thing came up, we were talking about it and suddenly found ourselves referred to a patent attorney who quickly painted a rosy picture of the great potential we had. It's a little embarrassing but, we bought into it. When it finally came down to crunch time and the hard questions were asked before going into the utility phase, the attorney started to put up lots of smoke and mirrors and while there was a valid patent there, it was nothing like the original concept and the actual meat of the patent was worthless.

It's a lesson learned and fortunately, we didn't spend a lot of money on it.

On the positive side, it forced us to be extremely thorough in everything we did and ended up being an invaluable learning experience.

Thanks, I know someone who was roped in to a similar situation in an unrelated field.
In rereading my comment, I didn't mean to come across as ascerbic as I did. Glad to see you responded by taking it in stride.

[jason lollar]

Thats funny i just got done designing replacement pickups for a rhodes piano for a company thats going to reproduce them and I did all sorts of testing.
The chisel point- if the tine is centered on the point you get all harmonic and no fundamental- you also get a drop in volume- as you raise the tine above the point on the pole piece you get a fuller rounder tone with more fundamental and you get an increase in volume. i tried a flat pole just to see what it would do and it lost quite a bit of volume and the tone was very strange- too much overtone- almost like playing a hammond with only the odd number harmonics pulled out- its no longer in the same key when you do that.

[Mike Sulzer]

Thats funny i just got done designing replacement pickups for a rhodes piano for a company thats going to reproduce them and I did all sorts of testing.
The chisel point- if the tine is centered on the point you get all harmonic and no fundamental- you also get a drop in volume- as you raise the tine above the point on the pole piece you get a fuller rounder tone with more fundamental and you get an increase in volume. i tried a flat pole just to see what it would do and it lost quite a bit of volume and the tone was very strange- too much overtone- almost like playing a hammond with only the odd number harmonics pulled out- its no longer in the same key when you do that.

Interesting project! What you observed makes sense. With the pickup core located off the end of the tine, and centered, you have symmetry. For any core tip shape the flux through the core decreases for any direction of motion away from the center. Thus you have a frequency doubler. If you adjust so that the tine is off center, then the flux increases one way and decreases the other so the two directions give changes in flux of opposite sign. Then the doubling no longer happens. It might be that the optimum adjustment gives some doubling for a more interesting tone. When adjusted in this way the amount of doubling would be a function of how hard the note is struck.

Making the pole piece pointed increases the signal level because you get more flux change for the same amount of motion. I believe the chisel point is used rather than a true point to make the adjustment easier. But it also means that the pickup is sensitive primarily to motion perpendicular to the chisel line.

[David Schwab]

I'm having a hard time visualizing how the pickup is situated to the tine.

Can someone use this picture to help explain?

Thanks

[fieldwrangler]

Interesting project! What you observed makes sense. With the pickup core located off the end of the tine, and centered, you have symmetry. For any core tip shape the flux through the core decreases for any direction of motion away from the center. Thus you have a frequency doubler. If you adjust so that the tine is off center, then the flux increases one way and decreases the other so the two directions give changes in flux of opposite sign. Then the doubling no longer happens. It might be that the optimum adjustment gives some doubling for a more interesting tone. When adjusted in this way the amount of doubling would be a function of how hard the note is struck.

Making the pole piece pointed increases the signal level because you get more flux change for the same amount of motion. I believe the chisel point is used rather than a true point to make the adjustment easier. But it also means that the pickup is sensitive primarily to motion perpendicular to the chisel line.

Mike -

Now we're talkin'!!

However, doesn't a true "arrow point" also mean that the pickup is primarily
sensitive to motion perpendicular to the "knife edge"??

By the way... although active buffering/mixing can seemingly yield a more high-resolution output from these ganged pickup arrangements one can be justified in wondering if the gnarly interactive/intermodulatory elements might be sacrificed...

Bob Palmieri

[Mike Sulzer]

I'm having a hard time visualizing how the pickup is situated to the tine.

Can someone use this picture to help explain?

Thanks

Electric piano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia gives a brief description in the "struck tuning forks" section. "Rhodes piano" in Wikipedia has a picture; not too good, but if you download it and blow it up in a viewer you can sort of see what is going on. The tine is a heavy short piece of wire (loaded with a mass which can be slid along for tuning). Its axis is parallel with the axis of the pickup core and the pickup is located off the end of the wire, but off center. In the picture that you linked to you can clearly see the "chisel point". The end of the tine would be located near the center line of "chisel point", but more right off one of the sloped faces of the chisel. This is hard to see; I have never had one of these to play with, so I am going by pictures and description.

[Mike Sulzer]

Mike -


However, doesn't a true "arrow point" also mean that the pickup is primarily
sensitive to motion perpendicular to the "knife edge"??

I think that is right. I was viewing the two types of tip as "like a chisel" and "like a center punch". "Like an arrow" is a third type which I would expect to have maybe a bit more sensitivity in the other direction than the chisel.

[Mike Sulzer]

Are all the pickup coils wired in parallel with a step-up transformer at the output?