Behringer DDX3216 - Trying to repair, please help!

[soundmandoug]

I had this problem and it turned out to be corrupt firmware in the memory chips on the CPU card. After the CPU completes it's power-on sequence (about 14 seconds, during which the display shows the "DDX3216" splash screen) it then loads the last state stored before last power-off. If that state has been stored incorrectly (power supply fault or something) then it won't load and the cpu just hangs at that point (buttons un-responsive etc).

I fixed it by swapping out each chip in turn with a working mixer, and doing a power-on reset (hold 1-16 and setup switches whilst powering on) after each chip insertion. This cleared the fault to the point where I could access the files menu, whereupon I could re-flash the firmware from the PCMCIA card.

Doug

[Nisse]

Yes, Sorry! I found thit eeprom thing just after I published my problem.
I will try that.
Talking about the PSU: I have repaired a few now, an all of them works fine now.
Resoldered and replaced caps etc. BUT I've also put a fan on each. I think this is absolutely necessary for long time use an reliability!
The PSU needs cooling air. Iv'e also opened up a bit in the PSU. Nothing is visible from outside.
I run the fan on 8V to reduce the noise. (The fan is a "standard 12V PC fan")
Here are some pictures of what I've done.






Now I'm pushing most of the air through the PSU and out of the DDX.
I also put some plastic tape to prevent the air just to circulate inside the DDX.

[Nisse]

No valid program, restart update!

Hi Doug
As you say these desks are one of behringers Good products,apart from the poor quality electros and chinese build quality,
Though the PCB's are of industrial quality ! I luv'em
I have a small quantity of spares as well,so if you're stuck let me know.
I have found the epproms to be very reliable ,and not found a dead one yet,(maybe lucky) !
Although a sickly psu with a overvolt 5v rail may cause failure.
A reseat of all the epproms first,a small sharp blade screwdriver gently applied under each corner and lifted will do it.
Whats the actual boot sequence before it fails ?
Ah sorry just read your post.............
Thats a new one ! strange i think the cpu boot prom checks for corrupt data ?
What happens if you try a factory reset ?
I see you have a working board as well,swap the eeproms one at a time !! or you
wont know which on is faulty.
ps try the cpuos boot first, IC19

Paul

Hi,
Thanks for the information!
I tried to swap the flash memory (IC 16) from a mixer that hangs at startup (We call it A) to a working mixer (B).
Then I tried to update the firmware, but at the end, the mixer was hanging!
Then I had to power down/up the mixer, and after that the mixer says "No valid program, restart update!"
Well, now I was afraid that I had two broken mixers, BUT fortunately, when I put IC 16 from mixer B into mixer A, mixer A seems to work fine!
The conclusion is that it was IC 16 that failed.
Now, how can I reprogram the firmware in the broken mixer?
In what chip(s) are the firmware located? I could then copy the eeprom/flash from one mixer to the other.
I think I have access to an eprom-programmer at work, but is there an easier way?

Regards,
Nisse

[S2udio]

Have you done a factory reset before updating ?

I doubt that eprom is faulty.....but there could be a first time !

BTW tapeing up those airholes is a bad idear IMHO ,you will just exasperate the problem ,which is caused by the psu voltages going low (5V,3.3V,8v rail out of adjustment)
Causing corruption of data when locking up !,and overheating of the PSU
I have 2 off these running perfectly with no drastic fan mods,just a higher rpm better quality standard size fan ! and correctly adjusted voltages set at full load.
See the psu load circuit diagram,its there for a reason !
The voltages can be adjusted by the presets in each induvidual section.
If is done quite a high mileage in its life then a recap is a must for these psus with high quality Low ESR caps.

Cheers

Paul

[Nisse]

Have you done a factory reset before updating ?

I doubt that eprom is faulty.....but there could be a first time !

BTW tapeing up those airholes is a bad idear IMHO ,you will just exasperate the problem ,which is caused by the psu voltages going low (5V,3.3V,8v rail out of adjustment)
Causing corruption of data when locking up !,and overheating of the PSU
I have 2 off these running perfectly with no drastic fan mods,just a higher rpm better quality standard size fan ! and correctly adjusted voltages set at full load.
See the psu load circuit diagram,its there for a reason !
The voltages can be adjusted by the presets in each induvidual section.
If is done quite a high mileage in its life then a recap is a must for these psus with high quality Low ESR caps.

Cheers

Paul

Hi,
Yes, I did the factory reset, but I still got the "couldn't save the file - medium is full" error. That's why I tried to update the firmware. I've done it before with success.
Well, when it comes to the PSU, I would agree if I didn't have had the extra fan. The tape helps the air to come out insted of just circulate inside the mixer. That's why I opened up the PSU at the edges. There is a HUGE difference in the temerature in the whole PSU and the whole mixer whith this mod.
Now there is an air flow through the PSU an out. Before, it hardly existed. In my opinion, only the original-fan is not enough.
Anyway, back to the flash. Is it possible to make a firmware upgrade without manually remove the IC's and program them with a eprom programmer etc?
It think it has to, because the 27c512 is a PROM, an that is not possible to erase. So the firmware must be in IC15 to IC18. Usually there is a boot-loader in "upgradable" equipments that you can't change from outside.
I only found this (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...w/k4AxITunz2QJ), but there's no answer.
Do you know about the DDXupdate?
My plan is to try to program these flash ICs once again to be shure.

Kind regards,
Nisse

[soundmandoug]

Hi again, as for EPROMs, I have 3 new chips which I had shipped from China when I was working on my problem (when I thought it was an actual dead chip). I have access to a programmer for these chips, so if you or anyone else has a faulty or corrupt chip, I can program a new one with the image in that location and send to you, for a consideration.

As for airflow, I completely agree that the source of just about all the issues on this mixer is lack of airflow in the PSU. This is what cooks the caps and requires a re-cap on older units (as stated by Paul). One has to be careful with airflow, so as not to disturb airflow in the rest of the mixer (across the analog boards, CPU boards etc). So, on both my mixers I replaced the stock fan with a larger one of the same diameter (but 20mm depth) which has a much greater air volume (3x) but keeps the same flow over the mixer. I put the old fan on top of the power supply, up against the analog output board, kind of the same place as yours, but because it's much smaller, I didn't need to cut any holes; just sat it over the grille and fixed it with double-sided adhesive pads. This meant I could do the mod on my new mixer without even taking the top off - all the connector glue is still in place!! The new fan simply taps into the same cable as the original. The fan assembly can be removed with the lid just tilted up; the mod added and the whole lot replaced without disturbing any other connectors.

In this way, a smaller amount of air is drawn up through the supply than is being pulled out of the right hand side by the new fan, so airflow across the rest of the mixer is maintained. The PSU fan is simply assisting the natural convection so is additive, not working against anything.

As soon as I installed this simple, minimally intrusive mod, I noticed a distinct improvement. On my new mixer, even though it's had a very easy life and low usage, when warm (running for an hour or more), if powered off then on again, all the peak LEDs would come on, indicating loss of the 17V line. This is due to the fast-start circuitry on the PSU failing through overheating. After installing the fan mod, this has never happened again, even after leaving the desk running overnight.

So, I would definitely sanction adding forced air cooling through the PSU, but being careful to maintain correct airflow across the rest of the mixer.

Doug

[Nisse]

Rom images

Hi again,
Does anyone have the binary images for the EEPROMs? (IC15-IC18)
The strange thing is that when I reprogram IC15-IC18 with an EPROM programmer, the mixer (the one which worked) is now hanging at startup, but not the "faulty" mixer.
The problem is probably because the rom-images for rom 15, 17, 18 is taken from the faulty one, and they where probably not 100%.
Anyway, If anybody has the rom images, I would be grateful to have them.

/Nisse

[Nisse]

Hi again,
Does anyone have the binary images for the EEPROMs? (IC15-IC18)
The strange thing is that when I reprogram IC15-IC18 with an EPROM programmer, the mixer (the one which worked) is now hanging at startup, but not the "faulty" mixer.
The problem is probably because the rom-images for rom 15, 17, 18 is taken from the faulty one, and they where probably not 100%.
Anyway, If anybody has the rom images, I would be grateful to have them.

/Nisse

Hello fellows!
Forget about my previous post, cause today I'm in a good mood!
I've finaly got the DDXUpdate V1.11 software, and "that was the shit"
So NOW IS MY MIXER WORKING AGAIN!!
No need to remove roms, and burn etc.
Just some info:
First I tried to update the mixed from my "better" computer with dual core CPU but this failed all the time. I got communication error after a while. Then I tried with an external USB-RS232-COM-port, but that didn't work either.
Then I tried with an older single-core-CPU computer (Both with Win-XP), and that worked fine!
Don't know why...
Well, the older computer runs "TinyXP", that has a lot of stuff disabled. That could make sense!
Then I had to do the "factory reset" cause most of the leds was lighting up.
Now was the mixer working fine again!
Then I had to update the mixer with the "latest" software (V112), because the DDXUpdate installed an older version. It seemed to be built-in in the DDXUpdate-program.

Regards,
Nisse

[soundmandoug]

Further to my previous post regarding improving airflow through the PSU of the DDX3216, here are some pics of the mod I did on both my mixers:

[Nisse]

Further to my previous post regarding improving airflow through the PSU of the DDX3216, here are some pics of the mod I did on both my mixers:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]19938[/ATTACH]

Hi,
So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?
By the way, I think you have to clean your PSU-fan a bit!

Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
V109.bex = Latest firmware
V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)

Do I need to install them both?
How can I see the installed version(s)

Ps.
If anyone needs the DDXUpdate, I can share it for you.

/Nisse

[S2udio]

Hi,
So how do you replace your capacitors if you don't dismount your PSU?

Hmm.............. You remove it,and take the lid of,then remove the board,.?

Warning ...if you are not experinced in repairing SMPSU's....leave it alone or find someone who is,....They are lethal in the wrong hands ,get something wrong and you will kill
A section at the flick of the mains switch. !!!

Well, does anybody know the difference between the V112.bex and V109.bex? For me it looks like V112.bex is a newer firmware, but on behringes homepage it says:
V109.bex = Latest firmware
V112.bex = Audio software (surround software)

Just install 1.12

Do I need to install them both?
How can I see the installed version(s)

Its not possible to "install both", 1.12 is just an update for surround ,so not nessesary but usefull.

I have quite a few Snapshot/ configs I use , so mine gets backed up at least once a month

The default factory reset defaults the com port to MIDI communication,....you need to set it to "RS232" manualy, in FILES/EXCHANGE.(VIA)

Here you will see the file version......!

[gassanov]

I got this problem " memory test error please contact your local dealer "
What. Already did is: changes some capasitor on the psu unit and also replace all the psu with my other working ddx but the error message stil apears. Please hel and sorry for my bad english, thx in advance

[Nisse]

Hi,
It sounds like you have some problems with your memory chips on the main board.
Have you verifyed that all pins on the memory chips are properly soldered to the main board?
You might need a good magnifying glass to see it.

/Nisse

[Termac]

Hi

This thread is really great, trying to work my way though an issue with my DDX.

Started to get so random "hiss" noise from main outputs about to gigs ago, thought it was the main PA was noisy. On the last gig the whole analogue audio level drop to about a tenth of normal output then jumped back up to normal level at random times and had to swap out the console. It did so when up to normal operating temps and passing a normal audio stream. VU meters did not show the drop just. I suspect somewhere in the DA stream or board or in the Op Amps on the output. Maybe the normal dry joint. Am reasonably competent technically and have normal diagnostic gear, but need some assistance from those that have dealt with these mixers, to provide some level of guidance of where to start.

I love this mixer due to its size and capability for small jobs. If any one would like to chime in it would be most appreciated.

Termac

[gassanov]

Yes...i already re soldering all the memory chip...i foget the ic label but it looks like a chip on the computer ram. But the problem still there. I guest i have to changes the memory chip righ?