Did Bill Lawrence outdo himself

Guitarist · 12-02-2008, 10:24 AM

I and a bud are about to upgrade; my Tele and his Strat.
Any last words before we go with the BL L200s vs the SNC Strat brand which BL "sold the design to" (Becky, 12/2008).

I'm guessing they're nearly the same but with different magnetic materials.

David Schwab · 12-04-2008, 08:43 PM

Bill designed the SCN's for Fender, but his name is on the patent, so I wouldn't say he sold the design to them, they commissioned him to make them.

I'd guess they are similar, but the SCN has the magnets in the middle with the coils on the top and bottom. The photos of the L200 show the magnets running though both coils. It's very similar, but a bit different.

The magnet type plays a big part too, and the SCN's have more metal in them which changes the tone.

I guess it all comes down to which ones you like better.

Ben N · 12-04-2008, 11:09 PM

If Fender had hired him to do the SCNs, they likely would have had him waive any claim to the resulting IP at the outset, and then the patent would have been in the name of FMIC. Otherwise, having taken the patent in his own name, he either licensed it to Fender or sold it to them outright. His name on the patent would not change that, AFAIK.

voodoochild · 12-05-2008, 09:14 PM

I knew that Bill designed those pickups for Fender. I just hope he didn't make any of them. The fail rate on the Fender ones are real high. Bad solder connections and such. Maybe someone else can chime in? It would make sense that Fender is really making the SNC's because all of their other pickups seem to have pretty high fail rates too. Especially the ones made in Mexico.

telemoxy · 12-06-2008, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voodoochild

I knew that Bill designed those pickups for Fender. I just hope he didn't make any of them. The fail rate on the Fender ones are real high. Bad solder connections and such. Maybe someone else can chime in? It would make sense that Fender is really making the SNC's because all of their other pickups seem to have pretty high fail rates too. Especially the ones made in Mexico.

Are you referring to failures before they ship or failures in the field?

voodoochild · 12-08-2008, 01:53 PM

Good question. I would say both. I used to do warranty repair for Fender back when I had a shop at a Fender dealer (I don't recommend anyone undertaking such a PITA) and saw lots of dead pickups on brand new and slightly used Fenders. More so than any other brand of guitar. I also have installed hundreds of Fender pickups and found lots of dead ones out of the box. So much so that I will now test all Fender pickups in front of the customer before I even let them leave the shop. I had one guy try and blame me for killing his pickup when it was dead to begin with. That won't EVER happen on my clock again. I know I may sound like I am knocking the Fender brand. I play Fenders too and like em when they are good, but I will call it like I see it. The ones I see mostly dead out of the box are the SNC, Texas Special, Noiseless, and 57/62's.

telemoxy · 12-08-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voodoochild

Good question. I would say both. I used to do warranty repair for Fender back when I had a shop at a Fender dealer (I don't recommend anyone undertaking such a PITA) and saw lots of dead pickups on brand new and slightly used Fenders. More so than any other brand of guitar. I also have installed hundreds of Fender pickups and found lots of dead ones out of the box. So much so that I will now test all Fender pickups in front of the customer before I even let them leave the shop. I had one guy try and blame me for killing his pickup when it was dead to begin with. That won't EVER happen on my clock again. I know I may sound like I am knocking the Fender brand. I play Fenders too and like em when they are good, but I will call it like I see it. The ones I see mostly dead out of the box are the SNC, Texas Special, Noiseless, and 57/62's.

Sounds like Fender needs the "Dutch Uncle" lecture on the cost of poor quality. I suspect Gibson does too, judging by my friends' experiences with new pickups failing out of the box or shortly thereafter.

I wonder which other pickup makers are not testing pickups before they are shipped?

David Schwab · 12-09-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben N

If Fender had hired him to do the SCNs, they likely would have had him waive any claim to the resulting IP at the outset, and then the patent would have been in the name of FMIC. Otherwise, having taken the patent in his own name, he either licensed it to Fender or sold it to them outright. His name on the patent would not change that, AFAIK.

He has the story about the pickups on his website. He said Fender approached him and gave him criteria to meet for the pickups. Obviously he has designed pickups for other companies as well (such as Gibson), as he is listed as the inventor and they are the assignee. So yes, he got paid for the invention and sold it to them.

I'm sure they are having them made overseas somewhere. I have some 25 year old BL pickups and they are all still working fine. I only had one fail and that was a Lawrence USA pickup not made by Bill himself... that's his ex-partner's company.

Pickup makers test their stuff. Fender and Gibson farm out much of their hardware production, so they are no longer pickup makers.

voodoochild · 12-09-2008, 08:57 PM

[QUOTE=Pickup makers test their stuff. Fender and Gibson farm out much of their hardware production, so they are no longer pickup makers.[/QUOTE]
Well put

12-02-2008, 10:24 AM	#1
Guitarist Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 244	Did Bill Lawrence outdo himself I and a bud are about to upgrade; my Tele and his Strat. Any last words before we go with the BL L200s vs the SNC Strat brand which BL "sold the design to" (Becky, 12/2008). I'm guessing they're nearly the same but with different magnetic materials.

12-04-2008, 08:43 PM	#2
David Schwab Pickup Maker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 5,611	Bill designed the SCN's for Fender, but his name is on the patent, so I wouldn't say he sold the design to them, they commissioned him to make them. I'd guess they are similar, but the SCN has the magnets in the middle with the coils on the top and bottom. The photos of the L200 show the magnets running though both coils. It's very similar, but a bit different. The magnet type plays a big part too, and the SCN's have more metal in them which changes the tone. I guess it all comes down to which ones you like better. __________________ Those who create are rare; those who cannot are numerous. Therefore, the latter are stronger. - Coco Chanel www.sgd-lutherie.com www.myspace.com/sgdlutherie www.myspace.com/davidschwab

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
New Bill lawrence pickup	David Schwab	Pickup Makers	17	11-13-2008 09:53 PM
Bill Stich workshop pics :	Electricdaveyboy	Pickup Makers	9	07-07-2008 03:19 PM
Stainless steel on Lawrence?	Electricdaveyboy	Pickup Makers	31	05-30-2008 04:12 AM
This Bill Lawrence pic + bobbin building	Phil m	Pickup Makers	4	11-17-2006 09:57 PM
Bill Lawrence	David Schwab	Pickup Makers	1	06-17-2006 03:30 AM

12-04-2008, 11:09 PM	#3
Ben N Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29	If Fender had hired him to do the SCNs, they likely would have had him waive any claim to the resulting IP at the outset, and then the patent would have been in the name of FMIC. Otherwise, having taken the patent in his own name, he either licensed it to Fender or sold it to them outright. His name on the patent would not change that, AFAIK.

12-05-2008, 09:14 PM	#4
voodoochild Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 182	I knew that Bill designed those pickups for Fender. I just hope he didn't make any of them. The fail rate on the Fender ones are real high. Bad solder connections and such. Maybe someone else can chime in? It would make sense that Fender is really making the SNC's because all of their other pickups seem to have pretty high fail rates too. Especially the ones made in Mexico.

12-08-2008, 01:53 PM	#6
voodoochild Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 182	Good question. I would say both. I used to do warranty repair for Fender back when I had a shop at a Fender dealer (I don't recommend anyone undertaking such a PITA) and saw lots of dead pickups on brand new and slightly used Fenders. More so than any other brand of guitar. I also have installed hundreds of Fender pickups and found lots of dead ones out of the box. So much so that I will now test all Fender pickups in front of the customer before I even let them leave the shop. I had one guy try and blame me for killing his pickup when it was dead to begin with. That won't EVER happen on my clock again. I know I may sound like I am knocking the Fender brand. I play Fenders too and like em when they are good, but I will call it like I see it. The ones I see mostly dead out of the box are the SNC, Texas Special, Noiseless, and 57/62's.

12-09-2008, 08:57 PM	#9
voodoochild Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 182	[QUOTE=Pickup makers test their stuff. Fender and Gibson farm out much of their hardware production, so they are no longer pickup makers.[/QUOTE] Well put

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)