5e3 with reverb and trem: possible??? 5e9-aR?

[doldrumdesign]

Hey all. I'm starting a 5e3 type project out of a sf Bassman head chassis and was wondering if anyone has tried to build a 5e3 with reverb and vibrato (tremolo) with good results? I've been researching for a week now and haven't found anything quite concrete, just theory's. No schematics or anything. I did find a weird Hoffman schematic of a tweed bassman with reverb and vibrato http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...an-5f6-r-t.gif, but that's about as close as I've come besides a Tremolux 5e9-a schematic. Is this at all possible, or am I chasing unicorns and bolting a reverb tank between their hind legs?

[pdf64]

See http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20h...namps/ga8t.pdf for how trem can be implemented at the power tube grids on cathode biased amps; I can't find any Fender amps that used that arrangement? Feel free to sub in the regular Fender trem oscillator.
For reverb, you may enough tube sockets / controls to fit a 6G15 http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20h...6g15_schem.pdf 'in front' of the 5E3. That's been done on a modern Fender, though I can't find which one at the moment. To avoid replacing one of the 9 pin sockets with an octal for the 6V6 reverb driver, I guess a 12AT7 could be used as per the regular AB763 arrangement.
Pete.

Vibro King, but it's not a good idea to put 470V on a 6BQ5 / EL84.
http://support.fender.com/schematics..._schematic.pdf

[Tubenit]

I have NOT built these amps, but IF I were to attempt a reverb and vibrato with a 5E3, this is how I would consider to approach it. This is a DRAFT idea only. Check for errors. The ""weird" Bassman drawing was mine.

NOTE that I purposely lowered the value of the coupling caps after V1 & after the phase invertor. I think reverb with normal 5E3 values would be somewhat muddy sounding, IMO.

With respect, Tubenit

[Tubenit]

You could also consider using a 6AU6 pentode for the vibrato such as on this Silvertone 1482. The 1482 is a similar amp as the DanElectro Centurian 275

The Dano has the nicest richest sounding vibrato that I have ever heard.

With respect, Tubenit[/QUOTE]

[txstrat]

I've built all my recent builds with the reverb you can see in pic 1 of Tubenits post (post #3).
Works quite well in all of them amps.
I've also built a 6G3 with a half tube tremolo, but I like the 6G11 (one 12AX7) tremolo way more (somewhat more lush and deep).
Should be working the same way.

[doldrumdesign]

Some great ideas here! And sorry, Tubenit, about the "weird" comment. I say weird as in the way I found the schematic (random google image search) but couldn't find any sort of credits on it. You're right about the 1482 trem. Brings up bad memories though... my 1472 was stolen last year whilst I was away on tour. I'm now a proud owner of a K-zoo Model 2. Seriously amazing amp for the price these can be had at. Those schematics look fantastic though. Thanks for those! I'll have to sit down and go through them after this cup of coffee.

As far as this chassis is concerned, it's been heavily modded a long long time ago. Someone tried to turn the Bassman into a Twin and added two more power tubes and a huge transformer, among other things. Adding to the chassis is not so much of a concern. I bought the thing for $50 from a friend around 2005-2006 and am now finally getting down to a bare board after slowly taking things out here and there. Which reminds me, anyone need a silverface Bassman faceplate?

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Just build yourself a cathode biased 6V6 power tube version of a black face Princeton Reverb with a NOS 5Y3GT rectifier and use the tone-volume controls of the 5E3... don't waste a lot of time with any other version... from your description request, that is what you really want.
You can find the schematic and layout all over the NET and there a few companies that sell the complete combo package.

[Tubenit]

Just build yourself a cathode biased 6V6 power tube version of a black face Princeton Reverb with a NOS 5Y3GT rectifier and use the tone-volume controls of the 5E3... don't waste a lot of time with any other version... from your description request, that is what you really want.

I think Bruce is talking about something like this? Please note the extra gain stage and the 3.3M resistor in the Princeton Reverb.

I think his suggestion is another reasonable offer to consider and it indeed may be exactly what you are looking for. PLEASE note differences in the 5E3 & PR power transformer voltages and ratings.

I respectfully disagree that considering another approach is possibly a "waste of alot of time". I owned an original Princeton Reverb and a Dano Centurian at the same time. I modified the Dano to have a one tube reverb (& it already had the 6Au6 vibrato) and liked the Dano MUCH better than the Princeton Reverb and sold the PR and kept the Dano for yrs after that.

FYI, I chuckled at the weird Bassman comment and took no offense to it at all. Not an issue

With respect, Tubenit

[doldrumdesign]

What about like what PDF64 said, having the 6G15 build in front of the 5E3? What are your opinions on that?

[doldrumdesign]

I'm really into the idea of the main circuit being the Deluxe. I like the two channels interacting with each other, and the amazing gain that is at hand.

Larry Cragg always says that the reverb unit in front of the Deluxe is the most important thing to Neil Young's sound. That the first 12AX7 is critical. That right there makes this project interesting. What would be the best way to build that in with the Deluxe circuit, tube and transformer wise? Would this way sound better than the reverb actually within the 5E3 circuit?

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I respectfully disagree that considering another approach is possibly a "waste of alot of time". I owned an original Princeton Reverb and a Dano Centurian at the same time. I modified the Dano to have a one tube reverb (& it already had the 6Au6 vibrato) and liked the Dano MUCH better than the Princeton Reverb and sold the PR and kept the Dano for yrs after that.

Hey Tubenit, you Dano weirdo...
lb for lb, I think the black face Princeton Reverb circuit, built using the bigger trannys from a tweed Deluxe and a great 12" speaker, is one of the finest amp ever and blows anything else in that category right in weeds with the first strum of a guitar.
Using the front end of the tweed Deluxe mated with the rest of the Princeton Reverb, using cathode biased power tubes will probably give the gent exactly what he wants... but I don't know the mind set of this builder either.

[txstrat]

To be honest, when I first read Bruce's post about the PR with a cathode biased power amp I thought: "d*mn this guy really knows his stuff".
This was exactly what I would have been proposing if I only had thought of it.
Hats off, Bruce.