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Thread: Is it against the law to wish everybody here a Merry Christmas??

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    Is it against the law to wish everybody here a Merry Christmas??

    Hey guys...it is that time of year again....wishing everybody here a very Merry Christmas .........hopefully I will not get in trouble.....this is a super site with many, many fine intelligent people who are willing to help out poor souls like me.......I thank everybody for their past support and hope to continue for many yeas to come........Merry Christmas everybody and a Happy New Year!!!!!

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    Old Timer Tom Phillips's Avatar
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    Yes. Merry Christmas!
    If it were not for Christmas, this "Holiday" time would be a completely different event. I believe that we should always remember that wishing someone a Merry Christmas does not mean we un-wish anything regarding the traditions of those who do not celebrate Christmas.
    Cheers,
    Tom

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    It was never a bad thing to wish Merry Xmas to someone, it was that governmental units were not to endorse Xmas. The courthouse can't put up a nativity scene but you are free to do so. Retail places use non-specific seasons greetings to be inclusive.

    Merry Xmas to all.

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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    File under "celebrate as you see fit." I'd like to wish one & all a merry Christmas too but my tree was ravaged by humbugs. Well so what, merry Christmas anyway! Chappy Chanukah too, and/or have a kwazy Kwanzaa and above all a festive Festivus!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    It was never a bad thing to wish Merry Xmas to someone, it was that governmental units were not to endorse Xmas. The courthouse can't put up a nativity scene but you are free to do so. Retail places use non-specific seasons greetings to be inclusive.

    Merry Xmas to all.
    Yeah...the world has certainly changed over the last couple of decades.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
    File under "celebrate as you see fit." I'd like to wish one & all a merry Christmas too but my tree was ravaged by humbugs. Well so what, merry Christmas anyway! Chappy Chanukah too, and/or have a kwazy Kwanzaa and above all a festive Festivus!
    Merry Christmas Leo.....

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Happy Holiday's Everyone!
    T

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    Christmas is fine but all other holidays are too.

    So if people say "it's pretty much been banned and you can't say merry christmas anymore" what they probably mean is we are scared white christian traditionalist people and we don't want our culture to change or expand to accept or accomodate different cultures, or we just want everything ot be the same it was 50 0r 100 years ago when everyone just disregarded different people and no one had the gaul to bring it up. Minorities and less desirable citizens with origins other than european christianity "knew their place" and didn't make waves in our white, christian, male dominated world.

    I don't consider the idea that people saying or not saying merry christmas is PC warfare against traditional america, as certain people like to call it and turn it into ammunition against other people. I think it's just a different time now where young people grow up in a more diverse culture and world, so they have acceptance toward differnt people/cultures, and they don't want to be mindlessly excluding them becuase it's "tradition". Not because they are PC warriors, but actually because they just have consideration and acknowledgement for other people who are different from themselves. And actually, beleive it or not, everyone is not christian and everyone does not celebrate "christmas," as much as we would probably wish they would. So telling everyone merry christmas actually makes no sense. Unless you just want to be traditional or what some might call "living in the past"

    The most important thing though, I think, is that the whole issue has been turned into a culture war and the more we talk about it and make it "matter" the more real it is. It's being played up so people get riled up and choose their side because the manipulators want them to rail against the other side, just like how people do with sports teams. the people that aren't into hurling "merry christmas" at everyone they see walking down the street are implied to be unamerican, at least in their values/traditions and we must rail against them for disparaging our wonderful country and traditions.

    Same as NFL players protesting racial discrimination or unfair policing. Some people, and I think you know who is the main culprit, is trying to spin the whole thing to imply these people are ungrateful, unamerican SOBs, because rather than expressing contempt for unfair policing or discrimination, we are being told that they are actually disrespecting the people in the military (are you fucking kidding me) and disrespecting our flag and our country, which I guess it is implied that all citizens, if they "know their place," should adore and revere the flag and the country even if they get trampled over in what seems to be an unfair ways compared to other citizens.

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    I´m sick of so called PC which is but a weapon against Western Civilization.

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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    PC means saying "what you are supposed to say" to avoid offending anyone. I'd rather just speak my mind, but Merry Xmas is not one of my battles.

    If someone walked up to me and said Happy Ramadan, or Happy Kwanza, I wouldn;t be offended, but I also would find it silly. I wouldn't go to South Korea and tell everyone to have a fun Guy Fawkes Day. I wouldn't expect a female to ask me if I had started my period yet, it just isn't an appropriate thing to ask. I don't have periods, and Jews and Muslims don't have Xmas.

    60 years ago I was 10, we had cards and wrapping paper that said Seasons Greetings back then, decades before the PC crowd got involved. It had no negative or exclusionary sense. So if I say Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings, read no more into it.

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    don't forget the joker g1's Avatar
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    Merry Christmas everyone.
    Bernie, even if it was against the law we'd still do it anyway, right?
    I think Christmas is more endangered by consumerism and right wing "Christians who won't mention Jesus"tm than it is from other ethnic or non-Christian groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsubulysses View Post
    ...or we just want everything to be the same it was 50 0r 100 years ago...
    Thank you for an excellent post, nsubulysses. IMO there is plenty of room on this planet for people to celebrate in whatever way is most meaningful to them, as long as it doesn't intrude on anyone else's rights. There's really no reason why we should be uncomfortable if someone else chooses to celebrate in a different way than we are used to.

    It may be worth pointing out that almost everything we think of as a "traditional Christmas" is actually very, very recent in human history, and was more or less manufactured in Victorian England by a handful of individuals. That was barely 200 years ago, which is nothing compared to the 200,000 years for which our species has been walking around on this planet. It turns out that what we think of as a traditional Christmas today, comes from a mix of 19th century attempts to imitate British royalty, imported German traditions (the decorated tree), then-new industrial revolution technology (traveling home from the cities where one worked by train, to be with family), and attempts by businessmen to drum up more sales (the Christmas card, Christmas crackers).

    You can read more about all this here:

    1) BBC - Victorian Christmas - History of Christmas

    2) https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/victo...mas-traditions

    -Gnobuddy

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    And now for the million-dollar question: why are we wishing each other a merry Christmas two full weeks early?

    -Gnobuddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    Merry Christmas everyone.
    Bernie, even if it was against the law we'd still do it anyway, right?
    I think Christmas is more endangered by consumerism and right wing "Christians who won't mention Jesus"tm than it is from other ethnic or non-Christian groups.
    You're god damm right we would do it.......Christmas indeed has been turned into a money making machine......Back in the first week of Oct, Canadian Tire, Wallymart, and every retail store had Christmas trees up and fully dressed before Halloween merchandise was put out......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
    And now for the million-dollar question: why are we wishing each other a merry Christmas two full weeks early?

    -Gnobuddy
    It's never too early...besides I am not on the site all the time......so I figured what the heck.....Merry Christmas to you.....

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    In disagreement with Enzo, but not trying to start a fight, I don't think PC means "saying what you're supposed to" but maybe I am wrong. I think it means just being conscious of the way you act in a way that takes other people into consideration so they don't feel offended or excluded. I understand some people might think it's aggravating to feel like they have to take this into consideration. But you don't have to do it. It's your choice. But the way you act matters because then you have to deal with the way other people in your proximity react. Which may be more aggravating to deal with than initially just thinking or caring about how you act. Oh well, whatever you want. Everyone's different

    I like JMs comment because I think he might be serious, but it just seems saracastic and ridiculous!

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I have been getting cards, we plan travel months in advance, I shop year round for potential family gifts.

    The ancient Egyptians and even the ancient Greeks didn't even HAVE Christmas, and look how they turned out...

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    October? Started seeing it here in July. Halloween comes out right after Easter, and VD comes out the day after Christmas.

    Justin

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    We do all the gift giving, light hanging, tree erecting, etc.
    But, at my house more in a secular way, without as much of the religious aspect.
    My wife loves the holidays, and loves shopping for the grandkids.
    T

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    By saying what you are supposed to, all I meant was PC assumes a sort of standard view point one is supposed to embrace. One should never refer to women as gals or chicks or broads, "server" never waitress. One should never make ethnic jokes. If one finds gays or minorities distasteful one should not mention it. And so on.

    I call my wife "dumb broad" all the time, it is in jest, but still non-PC. My favorite joke is about the guy who is half black and half Japanese and every December 7th he attacks Pearl Bailey. Not PC but still my favorite joke. If I were a public figure and said those things, I would get endless crap about it.

    Ulysses, I don;t think we really disagree, I think you just didn't like the way I put it. I think keeping others in mind in how you interact is the same thing as acting like you are "supposed to."

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I'm with tee here, we did Xmas all along, but it was never religious for us. My one sister decided she was Catholic for a few years, and so went to Mass on Xmas, and her husband is a pro classical guitarist and he plays at the church, but beyond that , no Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsco View Post
    Christmas indeed has been turned into a money making machine.
    This is the part of contemporary first-world Christmas that I loathe. Consumerism gone mad, which is a repulsively ugly thing to be forced to watch for weeks on end, even if you don't participate.

    What I like most about Christmas is that it was the one time of year when several members of my dysfunctional childhood family would put aside their self-absorption long enough to get together and actually be companionable for a few days. So for me, Christmas has always been about enjoying the company of the people closest to you.

    -Gnobuddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
    This is the part of contemporary first-world Christmas that I loathe. Consumerism gone mad, which is a repulsively ugly thing to be forced to watch for weeks on end, even if you don't participate.

    What I like most about Christmas is that it was the one time of year when several members of my dysfunctional childhood family would put aside their self-absorption long enough to get together and actually be companionable for a few days. So for me, Christmas has always been about enjoying the company of the people closest to you.

    -Gnobuddy
    We do the same thing.......a great time for family get togethers.....actually, I try to get the family together through out the year as well.....but that doesn't work out all the time......

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I like thanksgiving for a get together, no presents involved and we eat ourselves to sleep. Ch.mas is where my brother in law gets falling down drunk and starts shouting about LIIIIBERALS ruining the world.

    We used to go nuts with gifts. I am the type who would rather exchange 10 one dollar gifts rather than one ten dollar gift. That way we got fun little things. We don't need $40 sweaters anyway. But a few years ago, I quit giving gifts at all. I buy the wife a small thing like a wheel of brie, or maybe dinner. used to take the gathered family all freaking day to unwrap everything, my sister insisted we all open them one at a time around a circle, so we could all ooh and aah individually. My other brother in law and I were the main oh when will it ever end contingent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    ...open them one at a time around a circle, so we could all ooh and aah...
    That's the thing. The oohs and aahs often aren't genuine any more, and have to be squeezed out by force of will, like the last dollop of toothpaste in the tube...

    When I was young, we owned very little stuff, and getting a Christmas gift really was a special event.

    Nowadays, at least in North America, and most particularly in the USA, most of us own too many things already. Just ask U-haul and the rest of the enormous American self-storage industry, which makes millions of dollars a year storing the stuff people can't fit into their living spaces. (Wikipedia says there are over 54,000 self-storage facilities currently existing in the U.S. )

    So getting a gift nowadays often means getting one more useless thing that one doesn't actually need or want. And because we don't attach much value to the item, the gift-giving itself has lost significance too - instead of meaning that someone cares about you, nowadays it often means only that they whipped out their credit-card and clicked the "Buy!" button on some website or the other.

    My wife always asks me what I want for Christmas, or my birthday. For years now, my honest answer has been that I don't want anything, other than a date with her.

    This year will be a little different. Money has been tight all this year, so I haven't bought anything for myself in quite a long time. And so there is actually something I do want for Christmas. In addition to a date with my wife, that is.

    -Gnobuddy

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    My take on gift giving is this.

    Don't buy me anything. Then I don't have to feel like I should buy you something (you don't need) in return. IMO, Christmas gifts are for little kids and I don't mind buying them something. It should be like Halloween. Once you reach a certain age, your done getting free candy.

    And BTW,......MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    First off... Merry Christmas everyone.

    Christmas here in the US is, of course, a marketing ploy to bolster consumerism. No doubt. It is, of course, supposed to be a christian celebration. Like Easter. So why don't we dye eggs with colored vinegar on Christmas? But I digress.

    Something else Christmas has come to represent, as noted by others, is the gathering of family and a general sense of good will toward others. This is the least promoted quality of the holiday, but it's the only one that matters. And that's why that characteristic has endured and remains the whole point for most people I think. The cross and even the gifts are secondary. JM2C on that.

    And as to whether it's ok to say Merry Christmas??? Of course it is. Is it PC? What is PC? Who gives a crap? Should it be thought of as rude or unenlightened if Africans in Africa say Happy Kwanzaa instead of Happy Holidays? Perhaps in predominantly Muslim countries, where there is no holiday analogous to Christmas, they should put up "Happy Holidays" decorations anyway? Maybe Hanukkah should be scrapped in Israel too? Even the metaphysical types and their clicks openly celebrate Solstice rather than Christmas. No one dares to get offended if any alternative to Christmas is used, but for some reason, here in America (Which is supposed to be capitalized by the way. Unless you're demonstrating intentional disrespect?), where Christmas has been a traditional holiday, we're not allowed to openly celebrate it as a society anymore? Only as individuals. It's some of the most foolish garbage I've seen come about in my lifetime. The idea that someone would avoid shopping at a store in America because they put a Merry Christmas sign in the window is stunningly obtuse when you consider that some people who LEGITIMATELY don't celebrate Christmas came here, to a country with different customs than their own, for individual freedom in one representation or another. And any overly PC snowflake that is offended by Merry Christmas should go spend a year where those people came from and learn what a real problem is so they'll stop inventing them where they don't otherwise exist. Sheesh.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Before I harsh the mellow of sentiment too much... I always like to include a funny Santa pic or two. I don't think I've posted this one before.

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    Is that you Chuck?? And what is up with the finger......looks like somebody is not a happy camper....lol......I just showed it to my wife..she thought it was quite funny.........

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Chuck, my sentiment exactly!
    I live with a holiday decorative-a-holic.
    I try to endure without saying anything and ruining the decorative mood.
    She would put Xmas ornaments in, & on my recliner if I let her! lol
    As far as the gifts, my bride and I don't do that anymore.
    We have the "if you want or need something", go buy it policy.
    We do give gifts to the 2 kids, spouses, and 3 grandkids. Which is a total of 7.
    My wife takes care of most of that. Most of it gets purchased around black Thurs, and Friday!
    T

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Well I loved Christmas as a kid, and I loved Christmas when I had a child in my home as an adult. But my wife and I are empty nesters now and this year is tough. We lost a family member that my wife and I were caring for in our home about three months ago. And then we had put our fabulous dog down on Thursday. There have been some medical issues as well. Myself and and another family member that lives close. We're the main bread winners in our circle so money has been tight.

    Still, we've always been Christmas people. So I got around to doing some lights and we're in the middle of decorating the tree with our amazing collection of ornaments. I'm pushing through it because, well, it's not that hard to do and regret isn't often something you can redeem.

    Definitely looking forward to Christmas Eve dinner though. Pia, our daughter and myself have been doing a king crab feast on that date for the last twenty years There's always an indulgent amount and Pia uses the leftovers to make her incredible crab cakes. I'll probably bake a pie or a cheesecake.

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about the crappy recent events you've endured, Chuck. Hoping Christmas brings you some peace and 2018 brings you better things.
    P.S. I vote cheesecake.

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I vote cheesecake too. I used to make a killer cheesecake, based on dry curd cottage cheese instead of cream cheese. And lime juice and zest instead of lemon.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Sorry to hear about the crappy recent events you've endured, Chuck. Hoping Christmas brings you some peace and 2018 brings you better things.
    P.S. I vote cheesecake.
    Cheesecake it is then. I need to make one for my neighbors anyway. The did us a solid and I need to tit that tat. A cheesecake will do, though a simpler pie wouldn't.

    Hey... When it comes to debt and budgets, one thing to remember is that they can't eat you This too shall pass. And I hope when it does I won't have any more pain.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "If you build it, it will hum..." Justin Thomas

  35. #35
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    What is this "tat" and where can I get some.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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