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Thread: Jazz Guitarists Need to Eat More Wheaties

  1. #36
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    I'm with Chuck -- I need some milk to get that sour taste out of the back of my throat.

    There are a lot of bass players haven't quite wrapped their minds around the limitations that Class D brings with it... like being stuck with fixed load impedance. They're so used to swapping different impedance cabs with tube and conventional SS gear that they do it without thinking too much about it. I can't tell you how many guys have blown up their D amps because they were switching cabs willy nilly without thinking about Z. that's the kiss of death to a Class D amp.

    Just like you might expect, the jazz guys talk a lot about the Quilters.
    I'm no expert on Class D but the MV50 is rated at 50W into 4 ohms, 25W into 8 ohms and 12.5W into 16 ohms. I imagine that running it into 2 ohms could overload it but wouldn't that be true with solid state as well? The SS amps I've seen usually list a minimum impedance.

    I have a guitarist friend who also plays gigs on bass and he has been using the Bugera amp for 2 years now and he gets a much better tone than with the Yamaha SS bass amp he used to gig with for years. As for the rating of 2000 watts he says its more like 600 "real" watts, but that is still more power than he would ever need.

    Steve A.

    P.S. Hey Dude, there are plenty of MV50 videos out there. The Anderton one only uses pedals (a Fulltone Plimsoul as I recall) for part of the video and it did illustrate that it gets a great sound with pedals (some amps don't) and perhaps answers questions about how the Class D power amp sounds.

    But I agree that videos are useless when evaluating amps... I need to hear how it sounds and responds to my own playing (there can be a latency or deadness which is a deal killer for me.) And I think that was partly why the Captain and Chappers were so excited about the MV50's... they are really fun to play!

    One downside is that they are so light that just the weight of your guitar cable can pull it off the cab. So I had the local plastic fabricator make me up plates to mount on the bottom of the mini-amps to which I have attached velcro.

    DISCLAIMER: Due to health issues I had to stop using and working on most tube amps about 8 years ago because of their weight. It turns out that my weakness was caused by a medication I had been taking since 2005 - when my doctor had me stop it in September 2015 I found my strength returning, at least until I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer 2 months later.
    The surgery wasn't too bad but the chemo almost killed me and 18 months after stopping it I am just now starting to recover but I still have a long ways to go before regaining the strength I once had.
    So I definitely do have a bias towards lightweight amps...
    Last edited by Steve A.; 12-21-2017 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #37
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    I don't doubt that the "2000W" Bugera sounds better than the old Yamaha, but nothing, and I mean <NOTHING>, of ANY technology or weight, comes CLOSE to my first experience with a proper bass amp, a 1972 SVT with a single fridge. It made my friend's Beatle-Bass cheap copy sound like the apocalypse, and everything in between. I have yet to see a 400PS in person yet, so maybe something comes close... The runner-up in the Bass Tone dept.? The 1964 B-15N.

    I understand the realities of age and health, but if possible, it <IS> worth getting out that monster if the room warrants it. And anymore, Bass is nothing more than a specific frequency range, anyway, instead of an instrument... Rap Bass is all anyone wants to hear any more. Sigh.

    Justin
    "Are you practicing in the lobby of the municipal library? It's still a guitar amp and it SHOULD make some noise (!!!)" - Chuck H. -
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    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  3. #38
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Justin, did you ever use your STR for bass? I The STR is a great bass amp. No kidding. With the stock Pyle drivers it's a nice and punchy bass rig, and the open back cab compliments the Hofner tone really well.

    The STR is the same basic platform as Fender's 180W Studio Bass amp from the late 70s, but the SB came with a 15" EVM speaker. The schematic should look familiar:



    There's a Feder Studio Bass Club at TalkBass. Now that people have rediscovered that amp for bass, bass players have started cannibalizing STR to convert them into bass heads. I bought my STR with the intent to rebuild it as a bass head, sort of as a mini-SVT, with 6x6L6 instead of 6x6550. I ended up buying a pair of SVT-2 Pro instead, so now I'm knee-deep in sextet amps.
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  4. #39
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Steve, I'm sorry to hear that your recovery is going so slow. I hope things work out for you. I know what you mean, you have to settle on whatever kind of amp you can handle, and as my health is bound to change in the future, I'm probably going to be forced to adopt stompboxes and other lightweight solutions. If you still play out you're going to need a nice lightweight rig, or hire someone to be a roadie for you. At home having heavy gear isn't such a problem if you can deal with a permanent installation. There are a lot of guys who keep SVT and Acoustic 371 bass amps and full Marshall stacks in their man caves with no intent of ever moving them.

    Regarding the Class D thing -- yeah, they're rated for power at those various Z values. I'm no Class D expert either -- far from it -- but my understanding is that Class D amps are designed to operate at specific power into a specific Z, and that if you drive them hard into the wrong load that's what kills them. There are a lot of bass players that buy Class D gear and blow it up. I think that's happening because they're driving the amps beyond their rated specs into the wrong loads, and that just taxes the amps. A lot of these amps are amp-on-a-stick (or amp on a chip) which makes them hard to work on, impossible to work on if you can't get the parts. I've heard stories about Class D amps being not economically repairable, which means that when you blow one up you get to buy another one. All of that makes me wonder why they just don't build better protection into the amps. Anyone?
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  5. #40
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    Hey Bob,

    Mine was a plain old Super Twin, no reverb. I tried it for a few minutes with my Mustang Bass, but it had the stock CTS speakers in it, and cranking it with only 20W handling to spare, I didn't want to blow them out. I picked that amp up to flip it - paid $100 for it with no 6L6GCs, no Volume pot, and no Power switch. So for a $200 investment, I made $250 on it. It didn't last a week on CL, and went to a good home with an electronica guitarist who was looking for a super-clean tube amp that took pedals well. The ST fit the bill.

    I had toyed with the idea of maybe using a quartet of 6550 in it, but I didn't really want to mess with it, since besides a couple cheap parts, the circuit was stock. I respect a nice old Fender, even if it is considered little more than "hack fodder." Instead, I have a tranny set for a 100W Twin Reverb; maybe I'll make a 2x6550 bass amp out of those instead. I'm convinced that great bass tone is a byproduct of efficient speakers and a nice full-frequency tube amp, not this kilowatt SS stuff with heavy, dull, inefficient speakers... My 50W Bassman gets more volume complaints than any SS amp w. "bass" speakers ever did, and I rarely need more than that. When the drummer & people show up - then it gets praise for slicing through a mix clearly. People LIKE to actually hear the notes the bass is playing.

    Re: Class D, TBH, I don't want to have to think about it that much! My Bassman 100 will run a 2, 4, 8R load... my Bassman (has a TWin Reverb OT) will do 4, 8, 16. I never notice a huge difference in power, and neither amp has ever blown up yet. Sometimes it's nice to just bring the head and not unload the cab, if they've got something that will work.

    Justin
    "Are you practicing in the lobby of the municipal library? It's still a guitar amp and it SHOULD make some noise (!!!)" - Chuck H. -
    "When receiving a shock I emit a strange loud high pitched girlish squeak." - Alex R -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  6. #41
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    Watching Chappers and the Captain reminds me of Beavis and Butthead.
    True enough, if Beavis and Buttheads were CEO's of companies like Andertons Music and Chapman Guitars. Either these guys are financial wizards (yeah, sure!) or they got their businesses started using daddy's money... What the heck, if you are smart enough to get born into a rich family more power to you!

    Steve A.

    P.S. The 2017 pro lineup of Chapman guitars look very impressive although not exactly my cup of tea...



    The ML2 Pro retails for $1099...

    https://www.riffcityguitaroutlet.com...dusk-with-case

    .
    Last edited by Steve A.; 12-21-2017 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #42
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    Mine was a plain old Super Twin, no reverb. I tried it for a few minutes with my Mustang Bass, but it had the stock CTS speakers in it, and cranking it with only 20W handling to spare, I didn't want to blow them out. I picked that amp up to flip it - paid $100 for it with no 6L6GCs, no Volume pot, and no Power switch. So for a $200 investment, I made $250 on it. It didn't last a week on CL, and went to a good home with an electronica guitarist who was looking for a super-clean tube amp that took pedals well. The ST fit the bill.
    Damn -- $100 is a great price. I paid $325 for mine. It was a working amp that had been ridden hard without enough TLC -- it had 6 different brands of 6L6 (!), orignal Pyle speakers, OK cosmetics but, dead reverb because the tank had been bounced hard enough to rip the wires on the transducer coil. Evidently someone just kept replacing whatever 6L6 that failed with whatever was on-hand without worrying about matching anything.

    I'm convinced that great bass tone is a byproduct of efficient speakers and a nice full-frequency tube amp, not this kilowatt SS stuff with heavy, dull, inefficient speakers... People LIKE to actually hear the notes the bass is playing.
    Indistinctness is a problem with some bass rigs, especially the SS rigs that drive inefficient speakers hard enough to generate a lot of IM distortion. In some respects we can blame Bob Carver for that -- his subwoofer patent used obscene watts to drive inefficient long-throw woofers. Doing this allowed him to get extended LF response in small boxes but the IM distortion was horrible. but not many people could identify IM distortion at LF, so his boxes were popular. When the patent lost it's challenge everyone adopted his high power, long throw, inefficient speaker model for hifi rigs and it trickled into bass rigs.

    I think the modern GK sound can be so thick and bottom heavy, and lacking in top end, that the notes become indistinct. Add some IM distortion and it turns into a wall of mud. Same with some of the Eden systems. I saw the B-52's and they had a gal playing bass through an Eden 810 stack and it was about as clear as a wall of mud. You need something on top to define the notes, otherwise everything becomes indistinct.
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  8. #43
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    True enough, if Beavis and Buttheads were CEO's of companies like Andertons Music and Chapman Guitars. Either these guys are financial wizards (yeah, sure!) or they got their businesses started using daddy's money...
    I thought that the Captain was born into the Anderton's music store family business. I think he's just a guy working in the family store.

    I don't know about Chappers or his guitars. I think he's just an OK guitarist who tries to supplement his gigging income as a YT personality. Regarding the guitar line -- it doesn't take all that much money to start your own guitar line based on Chinese manufacturing. Basically, all you have to do is visit a Chinese guitar factory tell them what you want and hand them a check. If you know YT there are Philip McKnight videos where he talked in detail about using Chinese contract manufacturers to make his own guitar line. I think Chapstick did the same thing. I doubht that there was much in the way of original design on his part.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  9. #44
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    I thought that the Captain was born into the Anderton's music store family business. I think he's just a guy working in the family store.
    OK, you made me look it up and as you suggested Andertons is a family business going back to 1964 but the Captain (Lee Anderton) is managing director and co-owner (per his Facebook page.)

    Founded in 1964 by current Managing Director Lee Andertonís Father and Grandfather, Andertons Music Co. has remained a family business for over half a century.
    https://www.andertons.co.uk/about-us


    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    I don't know about Chappers or his guitars. I think he's just an OK guitarist who tries to supplement his gigging income as a YT personality. Regarding the guitar line -- it doesn't take all that much money to start your own guitar line based on Chinese manufacturing. Basically, all you have to do is visit a Chinese guitar factory tell them what you want and hand them a check. If you know YT there are Philip McKnight videos where he talked in detail about using Chinese contract manufacturers to make his own guitar line. I think Chapstick did the same thing. I doubht that there was much in the way of original design on his part.
    Chappers is the vocalist and guitarist in Dorje, a prog rock band in the UK. Not exactly my cup of tea but they seem to be popular as this video has had almost 2 million views:



    Here is an interview with him on his guitar company which he runs out of his living room and markets on-line through YouTube and other sites.

    DORJE Frontman Rob Chapman Builds a Guitar Empire | Performer Mag

    An earlier article in which he explains the collaborative design of his guitar line, with on-line voting on specific details...

    How Rob Chapman Rallied a YouTube Army to Change Guitar Design FOREVER! | Performer Mag

    His Pro line of guitars built in Korea has neck-through construction like a Gibson Firebird, not very common in $1099 MSRP import guitars. In many cases a guitar "company" orders instruments from an Asian factory cafeteria style, with no input on the construction besides color and headstock shape.

    The factory in Korea that builds the PRS SE line said that PRS was the first vendor that gave them detailed specifications for the guitars they ordered. My own impression was that PRS fine-tuned those specifications after reviewing each year's product since each batch seemed to me to be a little bit better than the previous year's... at least for the first few years of a particular model until PRS decided that the finished product was going to be as good as it was going to get.

    Getting back to Chapman Guitars as of October 2014 they had sold 5,000 guitars...

    Chapman Guitars ML-1 & ML-2 - The Gear Gods Review - Halloween Edition - GearGods

    Steve A.

  10. #45
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    I don't particularly enjoy listening to shredders or to someone who falls back on the gratuitous use of distortion to cover up sloppy playing. Having heard him in the Anderton's videos, I've heard all I need to hear. He has talent, but I don't think that guy has ever played more than a few seconds of clean tone in his life.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  11. #46
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I don't particularly enjoy listening to shredders
    I am no fan of wall-of-notes playing. I used to hear Yngwie Malmsteen was an absolute god on the guitar. It was all over the music store, so it must be true. then I finally heard one of his albums. My thought at the time, geez like a poor copy of the Deep Purple band, and every song was set up for "insert wall of notes solo here" as the main point.

    Never more disappointed.
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  12. #47
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I am no fan of wall-of-notes playing. I used to hear Yngwie Malmsteen was an absolute god on the guitar. It was all over the music store, so it must be true. then I finally heard one of his albums. My thought at the time, geez like a poor copy of the Deep Purple band, and every song was set up for "insert wall of notes solo here" as the main point.

    Never more disappointed.
    Agreed! But with a caveat. Yngwie was very passionate about what he did and it showed (if your ears could hear it?) and the subtleties that made it real might have been somewhat obscure to the uninitiated. But he was absolutely the best at what he did, and believed in. Whether it was anyone's cup of tea or not! And that was the point... Ok, not really my thing either. But I was close enough to the genre that I "got" it. Maybe because I recognize "his thing" I don't like seeing it dissed. NBD. A passing fad, but a truly phenomenal player actually. From what I understand though, according to people that met him on more than one occasion, he was sort of a dick
    "So I acquired it for the purpose of fixing it up - in case I run out of things to do with the rest of my life..." tubeswell

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  13. #48
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    The Chapman ML-1 and ML-2 look like a strat copy and a les paul copy to me. I'm not sure how much design anyone can put into a guitar when it looks like they're copying the benchmarks.
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  14. #49
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Yngwie is of course highly skilled at what he does. To me I find the result boring and repetitive and lacking in range. Compare for example to Eric Johnson.


    Years ago I bought a Little Walter album. A dozen songs. Every one was a 12-bar blues in A. Same tempo. Only difference I could discern was the lyrics.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  15. #50
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    well, i have to admit that you're right when it comes to the monotony of many blues players and blues recordings. for those guys who played in standard tuning they typically stuck to the same keys -- always based on open strings in standard tuning -- and the result was that an album would start to have a droning feel to it because blues guitarists like to hear the sound of open strings and most of them never bothered to tune their guitar out of EADGBe. thankfully there are some blues artists who would use alternate tunings to change things up a bit.

    I have to think of Keith Richards as being equally monotonous with his 5-string open-G tuning, and his one-finger-for-the-drunk chording style. His style really is that simple, except that he may use another finger or two every now and then to do suspensions on the droning one-finger-barre. But he's had a lot of success with it. His guitar chording style is instantly recognizable.

    that kind of monotony tends to come from guitarists and guitar bands that don't play with instruments that are homed in other keys. without Bb instruments in the mix a lot of guitarists tend to avoid that key. Guitars being C instruments that are tuned to open strings, they tend to focus on those open string keys.

    Ted Greene was a master at jazz guitar arrangements. One of his best pearls of wisdom was to avoid playing in the keys of E, A, D and G if at all possible. They're monotonous and people get tired of hearing them. It's amazing how much better the same tunes can sound if you just transpose them to a different key, and mix those keys up during a performance so that the audience doesn't get bored by the same keys droning on over and over ad nauseum.
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  16. #51
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I find Yngwie boring in the same way. One solo sounds like the next.

    In defense of Richards, he was never (or at least rarely) the soloist, he was always putting down rhythms.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  17. #52
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    But there's still quite a bit of monotony that comes from every tune being played in the same key. Richards is like Little Walter in that regard. No comparison to Ingwe intended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Enzo actually has a pretty good idea. A light as possible tube amp. Available materials could make it a worthy effort
    Others have had the same idea, for some years now.

    For instance, the Matrix Amplification VB 800, with two 12AX7 valves in the preamp, and 420 watts of solid-state power amplification, all in a 4-lb box: Vintage British 800

    A couple of video demos from Andertons:

    1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC02YJvwBaM

    2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQY1cqmKwUw

    Matrix also makes a lightweight 1x12 cab to go with the VB800.

    There was a thread on diyAudio recently about a 600-watt (!!) Texas Instruments evaluation module class D audio power amp on half-price sale for around $75 USD (!!!). We have now arrived at a point where the perfectly accurate solid-state power amp (i.e. no tone of its own) can have so much power at such an affordable price that it will never clip in a practical situation, meaning the preamp will decide the sound of the amp. If you can manage to make an all-valve preamp that has great sound, one of these hugely powerful class D modules is like carrying around your own "house PA" to go with your ultra-low-power guitar (pre)amp. Essentially, a modern incarnation of "Gar" Gillies' Herzog.

    As for me, I have yet to hear a solid-state guitar amp I like as well as a good valve guitar amp, but at this moment, I am working on an all-solid-state guitar amp I'm putting together for a friend. He is in his seventies and has a physical disability, so I'm making it as light as I can, and that means JFETs in the preamp, a class D power amp module, and a switching power supply.

    -Gnobuddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I find Yngwie boring in the same way. One solo sounds like the next.
    We all remember the young Yngwie, widdling away as fast as he could, white shirt open to the waist, long hair flying, superior sneer on his face, fully convinced he was a god among men.

    A decade or so ago I had one of those "What the heck happened to him?" moments, and looked him up on what was then a very young website called YouTube. What I found was a man in his forties, now quite pudgy, still with long hair, still wearing a white shirt open to his pudgy midriff, still wearing the gold chains and the superior sneer, and still widdling away as fast as he could on his guitar. And still sounding as trite and boring as ever, once you got past the first few seconds of amazement at his astonishing guitar technique.

    There is no doubt that Yngwie could (and can) do things with a guitar that 99.99% of guitarists could not (and still cannot) do. But to see him stuck in that same exact position, still making the same trite, boring, and unmusical "Look at me!" music, decades after one would expect him to have grown up out of the childish arrogance of youth, was saddening. IMO there is nothing sadder than a person who has been stuck in the exact same place for decades, particularly a person in a creative field like music or arts or literature.

    -Gnobuddy
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  20. #55
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
    IMO there is nothing sadder than a person who has been stuck in the exact same place for decades, particularly a person in a creative field like music or arts or literature.
    But do keep in mind that a lot of those guys are still playing to a fan base that resists change even more. There have been many musicians that decided to check out on their own terms after plying their biggest hit to a crowd some 20+ years after and for the 12,492nd time Part of being a popular musician has nothing to do with music. It takes a certain constitution for tolerating the game.
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  21. #56
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    I can't blame Yngwie for keeping the same music style -- he has a recipe and it works, so he's sticking to it. We should all be so lucky. What I don't get though, is how a middle aged fat guy tries to act like a sex symbol with the open shirt. Come on Yngwie -- button up the shirt. Nobody wants to see Meatloaf to perform in a Speedo and nobody wants to see your paunch. You're starting to look like Jabba the hut playing guitar. It makes me want to poke my eyes out. At least the photographers are kind enough to only be snapping head and shoulders shots now.

    yngwie-malmsteen.jpg

    Maybe he'd lose weight if he ate more Wheaties instead of whatever it is he's been eating.
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  22. #57
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    A story I told on another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    I actually saw Yngwie at a local music store in San Jose, Ca... He was a real prick. The employees were glad to see him leave. They told me he comes in there when he's in town and the old timers hide in the back and let the new guy's deal with him. When I saw him he wasn't even casual. Done up with his big hair and leather tassel short crop chick coat. Oh, I forgot to mention eye liner. Very short with fans and worse with the guy helping him. Refused autographs and photos. I didn't get involved, just watched and thought "Who pissed in Yngwie's Cheerios?".

    Chuck

    P.S. Incredible player though, like it or not.
    "So I acquired it for the purpose of fixing it up - in case I run out of things to do with the rest of my life..." tubeswell

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  23. #58
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Sounds like the musicians' equivalent of Pete Rose.
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  24. #59
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Years ago I bought a Little Walter album. A dozen songs. Every one was a 12-bar blues in A. Same tempo. Only difference I could discern was the lyrics.
    That may have been true of the original LP's on Chess/Checker Records which were compilations of his big hits in the blues world but many of the later anthologies dug deeper into his recordings which did show more variety. "Hate To See You Go" was the first of the deeper anthologies released in 1969 and here is a You Tube playlist with most of the 15 songs on that album:

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...3YZKP9zQGZwk1O

    Little Walter was one of the biggest influences on modern blues harmonica playing. He was on practically all of Muddy Waters' recordings in the 50's although he left to form his own band in 1952. I always thought that his own solo recordings were more modern and precise than most other blues artists in the 50's (his drummers usually kept a very tight beat, like a metronome.) Paul Butterfield and James Cotton took that precision a big step forward in their own bands starting in the mid-60's and most blues bands since then have followed that trend.

    BTW of all of the Chess and Checker artists Little Walter was the only one who reached #1 on the R&B charts and he did that twice.

    I've been a big fan of blues since I saw Lightning Hopkins, Clifton Chenier and Muddy Waters in April 1966. That was a great show, one of the last ones with James Cotton playing in Muddy's band. The first half of the show was recorded for Arhoolie Records but the second half was not because back then everybody thought that Muddy was under contract with Chess Records (he never was.)

    Of course, Chicago blues is not everybody's cup of tea...

    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    The Chapman ML-1 and ML-2 look like a strat copy and a les paul copy to me. I'm not sure how much design anyone can put into a guitar when it looks like they're copying the benchmarks.
    The Pro versions of those guitars have maple neck-through bodies, something I don't think that Fender ever did and Gibson only did with their Firebirds. And while the silhouettes may look familiar the body is shaped ergonomically and with great access to all 24 jumbo stainless steel frets. Not to mention the GLOW-IN-THE-DARK SIDE DOTS! These are features that were requested in on-line polls (or however the collaborative design worked.)




    Steve A.

    P.S. For those people afraid of playing the Dorje video Mr. Chapman was mainly the singer with the few short shredder solos played by the other guitarist. Oh well, that just means that there is more Dorje for the rest of us to enjoy...


    ml2p-mod-frb-06.jpg

  25. #60
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I used to be into blues, back in the 1960s. I got everyone, Willie Dixon, Litttle Walter, etc. You buy a Muddy Waters album, then buy the albums of everyone on Muddy's record. Then you get all the players on those, etc. And eventually you find it is the same cats all playing on each others sides. And I am sure everyone has his moment and makes an exceptional recording, but in large part, most of it all sounds the same.

    I even had Electric Mud on my shelf.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  26. #61
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    Of course, Chicago blues is not everybody's cup of tea...
    It'd better be if you're a fan of any form of electrified blues guitar! It originated on Maxwell Street.

    In the 1960s I was too young to get into the bars, but the great thing about Chicago Blues was that you didn't have to go to the bars to hear it. We had Maxwell Street. For those of you who may not know about it, it's the open air market where John Lee Hooker sang Boom Boom in the Blues Brothers movie, and where Aretha Franklin's "Soul Food" restaurant was located in the movie (it was actually Nate's Deli.)

    The whole electrified blues idea came along during the great northward migration out of the south in the 30s-40s, as Mississippi bluesmen migrated to St. Louis and Chicago in search of work in the industrialized cities. That corresponded with the evolution of country blues to city blues, and eventually to urban blues.

    Maxwell Street was a major open-air performance area in Chicago, and because the Maxwell Street flea market was outdoors, the Dobros just weren't loud enough. Guitars needed amplification. Poor folk could only afford small amps. Maxwell Street gave us the tone of small amps being turned up loud, along with small bottle clipping and speaker distortion. So even if you're not a fan of the Chicago blues scene, you're still playing in it's wake.

    In th e60s and 70s Maxwell Street was still the place to go for open air street music in Chicago, and some of the blues greats still played there. Unfortunately Maxwell Street is gone now. Urban Renewal in Chicago has killed off the oldest neighborhood that survived the great Chicago fire of 1871. Now Maxwell Street has been swallowed by the expansion of the University of Illinois at Chicago, and there's nothing but condos where the blues scene used to be.

    At least we still have Buddy Guy's Legends. If you ever get a chance to go there, don't miss the Mt. Bluesmore mural on the wall. It pays homage to some of the great Chicago Bluesmen, with their faces carved into stone as a facsimile of Mt. Rushmore.



    Enzo, please note that your favorite guy is there -- he's giving you a dirty look out of the corner of his eye.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 760bc5161607068dd4f00045f56bea82.jpg  
    Last edited by bob p; 12-25-2017 at 11:09 PM.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  27. #62
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    How how how how...

    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

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