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Thread: I remember

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I remember

    So we have the 50th anniversary of the MLK murder. But it has been a long time since a lot of things. I remember a lot of things. We all do. I remember a lot of stuff I am glad the younger among us will not have to live through and remember.

    I remember MLK being shot. I remember the "long hot summer" of 1967 - race riots all over the USA. If you lived in a city, you wrote "Soul" on your car windows to hopefully avoid them being broken out. I remember the white line on the floor of the bus - blacks rode behind it. I recall the two water fountains side by side in buildings, the chilled for "Whites Only" and the porcelain faucet for "colored".

    I remember when it was illegal to marry someone outside your race.

    I remember when they ADDED the phrase "under God" to the pledge of allegiance. I was in second grade. We said the pledge every day. We also said the Lord's Prayer every day...in school.

    It's not all evil. In the 1950s, California was a distant country. Products were advertised in the east, with notes like "prices higher in California." Some things were only available "east of the Mississippi."

    We had a relatively new thing appear: "Pizza Pie". It was always pizza pie, not just pizza like today. We also had never quite settled on hero, hoagie, or grinder. But big sandwiches came along.

    Cell phones are everywhere now, but 50 years ago, there were 'car phones". Here in LAnsing the phone company had something like 6 channels for car phones, and you got on the waiting list for them to issue you a lunch box of a thing with a telephone handset on top.

    TV stations used to sign off the air at night. After the late news or maybe after one more program... "WJIM Channel 6 now ends its broadcast day and leaves the air. We invite you to join us tomorrow at 6AM for the farm report". They play the national anthem, and off they go. PFFFFFFFFF. I could then pick up channel 6 from Milwaukee or somewhere - fuzzy, but there.

    TV had a big channel knob - 2 through 13. Then they added UHF channels and a second knob appeared. You needed two antennas, one for each band. You could only get UHF channels if you had a newer TV set. Here in Lansing, during the day, channel 10 was the MSU college station. Educational programs and early PBS, WMSB. Then in the afternoon, channel 10 switched over to the Lansing NBC affiliate, WILX. Same channel and transmitter, two different call signs. Eventually, the college got its own channel.

    As a kid in Washington DC, TV was four channels. ABC, NBC, CBS, DuMont. Stations were not on all day at first, let alone all night. In the early morning was news and the Today Show. and a few morning variety shows. Then they went off for a while and came on late afternoon for news and prime time. SHows were short. In the morning some were half hour, but there were quarter hour shows too. Seems to me the Liberace show started as 15 minutes.

    Who can forget Queen for a Day? Please, anyone? Tell me how...

    Queen for a day had four contestants - women - and each told a sob story of how life had crapped on them. The audience applauded for each story and a big VU meter on the screen registered the clapping. Whoever told the saddest most tear jerking tale won. She was Queen for the Day and won prizes like all new kitchen appliances, or a washer and dryer and a year supply of mayonnaise.

    I was a member of United Air Lines 12-21 club. Between ages of 12 and 21, you could get the card, good for HALF price air fare. A Lansing to Washington was $36, but for me $18. It was aimed at students. 1965, $36 ROUND TRIP air from Washington DC to Lansing and back.

    On the MSU campus, every dorm room had a phone. They recently stopped providing phones since almost all students already had personal cell phones. They took them all out, though the wiring is still there, and students who want one can order in a phone. The phone numbers were in order, so if you knew mine, add 5 to it and you had the room five doors down. MY number freshman year was 353-5171. On the huge campus, you could just dial the last five digits and get another campus [hone. To get off campus, you dialed a 9 first, then the whole number. The number at the local DOminos Pizza was 351-7100. If you forget to dial 9, then the next five digits were the last five of mine. SO anyone leaving off the 9, tried to dial 3517100, but as soon as the got to 35171, it rang my phone. I took a lot of pizza orders.
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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    What a reminisce Enzo!

    Heck I thought Queen for a Day and Liberace were one and the same . . . but then I was a couple years younger. Mostly I wanted to see the Pinky Lee Show, Andy's Gang, Sandy Becker and later Soupy Sales. Of course the cartoons - many of which had no sound track. Farmer Grey chased the cats, the cats chased the mice, by the zillions - all to snippets of symphony chosen and spliced by who knows who? They did a good job, some of those pieces got stuck in that little kid's head: I'm still a fan 60 years later.
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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    On the caption "I REMEMBER"
    Lately, less and less!
    Like where did I put my coffee cup?
    Did I turn the coffee on when I went into the kitchen?
    Where did I put that, I know I put it up?
    Did I take that blood pressure pill, or just think I did?
    etc, etc, etc!
    T
    ++Sorry If I'm off topic, I couldn't resist!
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    Terry

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    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    I went to post a reply and I forgot what we were discussing.
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  5. #5
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    So we have the 50th anniversary of the MLK murder. But it has been a long time since a lot of things. I remember a lot of things. We all do. I remember a lot of stuff I am glad the younger among us will not have to live through and remember.

    I remember MLK being shot. I remember the "long hot summer" of 1967 - race riots all over the USA. If you lived in a city, you wrote "Soul" on your car windows to hopefully avoid them being broken out. I remember the white line on the floor of the bus - blacks rode behind it. I recall the two water fountains side by side in buildings, the chilled for "Whites Only" and the porcelain faucet for "colored".
    Wow. My recollection of the world 50 years ago is totally different, but then I grew up in a different place. So many of the problems that you described were a problem in the South, but they were never a problem where I grew up (Gary, Indiana) during the 50s and 60s.

    Where were you living where you had white segregation lines on buses in the 1960s? I'm an old fart and I've never seen it in my lifetime. Things were *WAY* different here... which is precisely why Gary was the most favored destination for European and Hispanic immigrants during the 1890s-1900s and for Colored people during the periods of "The Great Migration" from the South. All of these groups were "undesirables" who emigrated from "somewhere else" and came to Gary to jump into the "melting pot."

    Gary was a brand-new town, built by US Steel in 1906. In 1900 the city didn't exist, but when the US Steel built it's factories on Lake Michigan, people came from all over the world to seek a better lifestyle during the industrial revolution. This included people immigrating from foreign countries as well as people migrating from other parts of America. The town started off with a clean slate, and from the beginning the City was populated by a mixed racial population. Nobody was here first, and everyone came here for the same reason -- opportunity.




    Gary was one of the great industrial epicenters during the industrial revolution. Gary and Pittsburgh were the Steel Cities of the United States, and they were the most desirable destinations for everyone who wanted to move to a new place in search of opportunity. That included people like my family and other immigrants who came to the US from a foreign country prior to WWI and people who migrated from the South during the period of "great migration" in the early 20th Century and middle 20th Century. The Steel Cities were the industrial age's equivalent of Silicon Valley prosperity.

    By the 1960s this City had been already densely integrated for 50 years. During the two periods of great migration that occurred during the early Post WWI and the Post WWII periods, Gary was THE destination of choice for colored people migrating from the South, just like it was THE destination of choice for white immigrants from Europe and hispanic emigrants. Looking at the following map, we were the only "red dot" area for colored migration during the early 1900s and we continued to be one of the largest "red dot" areas of all time. From the time that it was first founded 110 years ago, Gary was America's model city for social integration.



    There was a reason that everyone from the South wanted to come here. We were a safe place that provided opportunity that didn't have that Jim Crow thing going on, and there was a bounty of employment for everyone.

    In the 1950s we had white lines in buses, but they were right behind the drivers' seat, which meant that everyone had to sit down behind the driver and nobody was allowed up front by the door. We didn't' have White Only faucets, bathrooms, or restaurants. Where I grew up we weren't even aware that sort of thing was going on until the Civil Rights Movement put it on the national TV news in the 1960s.

    I grew up only 4 blocks from the Gary steel mills. Our neighborhood was highly integrated because it was a workingman's neighborhood and everyone's dad was a "mill rat." We had white, colored and hispanic families all living on the same block and going to the same church. We were all the same -- we had all moved here because the employment was so good and because our parents wanted to bring opportunity to their families. Living and working together was just how things worked for everyone. Our parents realized that they had to make it work, and as kids we weren't even aware that our parents had to try to make things work. To the kids, it was all the same. I grew up eating chitlins, black-eyed peas and greens for dinner at my friends house, and I never even knew why people called it "Soul Food." To me it was just food. Same thing for tacos or carnitas. It was just something else to eat.

    Our schools had a pretty even mix between white kids, colored kids, and hispanic kids. Everyone walked to school. There was no need for school buses and we didn't even know what "busing" meant. As kids, we didn't even know about discrimination, we were just kids growing up in a place where everyone had the same background -- a working class family. What was so funny about this is that I remember the nuns at school teaching everyone to hold hands while we sang, "We Shall Overcome." As kids we didn't really understand that we were living "the Dream," because we didn't see that problem where we lived. It wasn't until later in my life that I learned how different things were everywhere else. In some respects, I guess we were miles ahead of the Civil Rights Movement by the time that it gained momentum during the late 60s, because these things weren't a problem here. We didn't see each other as different, we were all just kids.

    When it came time for high school, the neighborhood HS was integrated too. We didn't have a problem with race riots like Enzo mentioned because our neighborhood had been integrated from the time that the first houses were built, over 50 years earlier. Street crime and bashed-out car windows were never a problem. The biggest crime problem that we had to worry about was when somebody would steal the bright orange "sun ball" off of your car antenna. Even though Union 76 gas stations gave those things away with a fill-up, they were so popular that everyone wanted one. If you left your car unattended in the parking lot it was guaranteed to be missing when you came back.



    Crime wasn't a real problem back then, because we lived in one of the industrial epicenters of American manufacturing, where jobs were abundant and anyone who wanted a job had one. There was plenty of wealth in the community because Gary was a steel boom-town and good paying jobs were everywhere. As the metaphor goes, "The streets were paved with gold."

    Things changed dramatically in the 1970s, not because of the Civil Rights Movement, but because of economics. Japan started exporting their unemployment to America by dumping steel on the US markets at a price that was below their cost of production. Japan instituted their own form of "Quantitative Easing", increasing their money supply to provide them with the paper wealth that Japan needed to get by. The result that steel production in America began a progressive decline. Steel mills were closed, and Japan's postwar unemployment problem was exported to Gary, Pittsburgh and Allentown. When the mills closed things changed dramatically. The streets were no longer paved with gold, unemployment became rampant, and people had to move away in search of jobs. Without industry, the Steel City crumbled. For a while it became a ghetto before it was abandoned.

    When I look back on how my little part of the world has changed in the past 50 years, I don't see the problems of racial division that were common in so many other places, because they weren't a problem where I grew up. When I look back 50 years ago, I see a vibrant, economic powerhouse of American industrial might that was turned into rows of abandoned homes and crumbling empty factories when American jobs were exported overseas. Like Detroit and Allentown, Gary is a ghost town now because America's manufacturing base is gone. Instead of looking back and seeing how bad things were, and how much better they've gotten, I see the opposite -- I see how great things used to be and how bad things have become in America. And I fear that they'll only be getting worse.
    Last edited by bob p; 04-05-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    I'm from South Dakota where the population is currently something like less than 3% black. Back in the MLK days, even lower. I don't recall much in the way of discrimination because there wasn't anybody living here to discriminate against. It was something we only saw on TV.
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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    1950s Washington DC, was where I recall the white line on the bus floor. There was one up front too, yes, don't talk to the driver, but the one across the rear by the mid-bus door was very real. I remember little places over by the Chesapeake Bay still had "Whites Only" signs over the doors out front. My mom was from the Blue Ridge part of Maryland.

    I was in and around Detroit for the 1967 summer.

    I remember going to downtown Washington to go to big department stores. The elevators still had operators.

    Ho Ho, it;s me, my name is Pinky Lee. Yep I remember him. I remember Andy's Gang, and it was SMilin'Ed's Gang before that. Ed croaked and Andy took over.

    Howdy Doody, with Buffalo Bob Smith as host. Chief Thunder Thud, Princess Summerfall Winterspring, puppets like Mr.Bluster, FLubadub, and Dilly Dally, and of course Clarabell the CLown. Clarabell was Bob Keeshan who later became Captain Kangaroo.

    FArmer Grey? I remember it as Farmer Brown. I am sure it was the same cartoons. Real simple stuff. I recall Bosco, aka Bosko, a little vaguely Mickey Mouse type character, but he was in blackface, so you never see them now.

    Segregation was real. IN fact many areas were the result of steering. Jews were steered to the Silver Spring area, Blacks toward DC rather than suburbs. I lived in a sort of catholic enclave of Silver Spring for a while. Schools everywhere close for Christian holidays, but in our area, do to the large Jewish presence, some schools were closed for some Jewish holidays. Steering had that much effect.
    Here in Lansing, Michigan, East Lansing specifically, there are STILL zoning laws stating racial preferences on the books. It came up again recently, and they decided that no one pays attention to it racially any longer, but there was something about changing it that would somehow destroy other parts of covenants they liked, so even black residents were against repeal.
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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Remember the series of quarters from the mint a few years back? One for each state. Had something state specific on the rear side. The Lampoon or someone came out with spoof new quarter designs. The one for NDak was a couple guys with the caption, "Hey, we got a black guy."

    Then the one for SDak was similar, captioned "Say, did you see NDak's black guy?"
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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Yep. And thinking about my last post, I should clarify. I said, "I don't recall much in the way of discrimination because there wasn't anybody living here to discriminate against.". That doesn't mean there aren't racist assholes here. It just means it wasn't "on display". I'd be willing to bet you that 9 out of 10 old white farmers here were livid about the prospect of a black president.
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    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Oh, there are racist a-holes all over. IMO most of that is based upon people never having had exposure to people who are "different", and the idea that people who look different are different, and need to be treated as different. "Different" makes people uncomfortable when they're not experienced with dealing with "different." That ends up coming from our own feelings about personal security and about being reluctant to accept change. I think the great integration experiment that came from urban industrialization has shown that once you get used to being around "different," difference becomes easier to accept. That's why kids have such an easy time dealing with it and adults don't.

    Funny thing for me is that we were blind to it as kids because our urban environment was so thoroughly mixed. We didn't realize what a big problem other people had with it until we left our community and went elsewhere, and saw what it was like in a non-mixed community where outsiders were viewed as different. I never really saw racism until we moved out to Suburbia, or to rural America that didn't have the mixed composition that we had in the city.

    What struck me as odd is that when I lived in Gary in the 50s-60s I never knew what street crime was like either. My Mom got her purse snatched once, but that was the only time in my life I remembered an interaction with the cops. I take that back. As a kid, I had a lemonade stand on the street corner and the cops used to stop to spend a nickel. It wasn't until we moved to "Suburbia" that we had our first house break-in, and that came from white punk troublemakers who came from an affluent family. They didn't need to break into other peoples' houses, they just did it because they were mischievous punks looking for excitement. The only real crime came to "the Region" when unemployment caused collapse of the city in the 70s. Then everything went to hell in a handbasket, crime went through the roof and instead of being called the Steel City, Gary became known as Crime City because it had the highest murder rate. It wasn't mediated by race -- IMO it was all based on a horrific economic downturn that wiped out the entire economy.


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    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    On a more cheerful note, we had great TV in Chicago. If you're an old-fart in Chicagoland you'll remember some of the best local TV programming that included home-grown programming, like:

    Frasier Thomas and Garfield Goose:
    http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune...otos-20140416/

    Frazier Thomas with the puppets Garfield Goose and Beauregard Burnside III with Thomas' son Jeff, 5, behind the camera at WGN-TV studios, circa June 1958. Garfield Goose and Friends was a popular children's television show that aired from 1955 to 1976.


    Ray Rayner and Friends, Chelveston the Duck and Cuddly Dudley:

    Throughout his career with WGN-TV, Rayner would play many characters, including Sergeant Pettibone on the "Dick Tracy" show, Oliver O. Oliver on "Bozo's Circus," and eventually his own show "Rayner and His Friends."

    And every Chicago Kid's favorite: Bozo's Circus:

    "Bozo's Circus", a television program targeted to kids, became more popular in Chicago than in any other television market. Bozo's original cast is shown here with Bob Bell as Bozo, in 1966.

    Best of all, we could always count on the Cubs' game starting at 1:20 pm on WGN TV-9. Back then we didn't have to worry about having cable and finding out which network would be covering the game, it was always Channel 9. Life was so simple back then...
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

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    The uncle of a friend of mine, who played bass in the first bands I was in, and introduced me to Led Zeppelin, was Alfie Scopp, who played Clarabell the Clown on Howdy Doody (Alfie was the uncle, not my bandmate).

    The same general period in Canada was a little different. Initially, we had two TV channels: English CBC and French CBC, eventually joined by CTV, to make 3 channels. Folks living close to the border, or eventually in those areas that had "cable", got "the American channels". I recall well a trip our family made to Port Hope, Ontario, for a job interview for my dad, and I finally got to see Captain Kangaroo and Tom Terrific. Back back on the home front, it was all about the rabbit ears and their positioning. During championship games of varioous sports, my job was to sit near the TV and hold the rabbit ears just so, such that my dad could watch the game uninterrupted.

    During the Cuban missile crisis, we had preparation exercises in grade school. Not duck and cover. Rather, we were instructed to sit against the east-facing wall of the school, with our hands clasped over our heads and our elbows together. The idea was that, since Montreal was the big industrial city at the time, it was more likely to be bombed and the blast would result in windows on the east side of the school imploding. So, by sitting on the ground, under the windows, with your back against the wall and your arms protecting your face, the glass would blow in above your head, and you wouldn't be injured. There were sirens set up all over the city.

    "Youth music", apart from the four and a half minutes that Ed Sullivan might schedule, was quite limited in radio airplay. There was a CBC pop show at 5:00PM, weekdays, but radio was usually limited to something between 4:00 and 5:00PM on one station, and maybe an hour a little later on the other station.

    One of the oddities of the era was "musical interludes" that would fill in the space at the end of afternoon movies to take things to the top or bottom of the hour. I guess there weren't enough commercials to fill out the 90 minutes or 2hrs. The musical interludes would be pop singers of the day in staged numbers. I think I first learned about sex from Rosemary Clooney singing "C'mon-a-my-house, I'm-a-giving-you-candy" to a handful of ogling guys wearing bowties who struck me as being far too old to be interested in candy, so what is she baiting them with if it's not really candy?

    I don't remember Queen for a Day, but I do recall, The Gale Storm Show, The Bob Cummings Show, Our Miss Brooks, The Donna Reed Show, Danny Thomas, Father KNows Best, Life of Riley, My Little Margie, Bachelor Father, The Anne Southern Show, The Jack Benny Show, Hopalong Cassidy, Cisco Kid, Roy Rogers & Dale Evans, Rin-Tin-Tin, Circus Boy (with Mickey Dolenz in the titular role), and Crusader Rabbit.

    Both TV and radio signed off at 11:00PM, and as Enzo described, started up again in the early morning with the farm report. hard to imagine now, but our science curriculum in grade 5 or 6 included knowledge of the various popular strains of farm animals. So we had to know the different cow breeds and what their normal milk butterfat levels were (Jersey is highest, followed by Guernsey, with Holsteins well below them), what the different pig, sheep, and chicken breeds were. All of this was under the assumption that at least some of the students would end up working the family farm, so this was considered as central to our daily needs as learning to use Excel is today.

    As a 10 and 11-year old, my dad would give me a buck and a quarter to go to the Ottawa Rough Riders football games. A dollar got you an end-zone seat. The bus home was a dime, and 15 cents got you a drink or a hotdog. Greatest game I ever saw had Ottawa playing against Montreal on a natural (pre-Astroturf) field. It rained cats and dogs, and by the end of the first quarter, everybody's jersey was brown from the mud. At half-time, the home team loaned the visitors their scrimmage/practice shirts and everyone came out clean for the start of the 3rd quarter. By about the 10-minute mark in the 3rd quarter, they were all back to brown.

    The Fog Bowl: The 1962 CFL Grey Cup was played in Toronto. The game started on Saturday. BUt a fog rolled in from the lake that was SO dense, the fans couldn't see the field, the cameras had precious little to broadcast, and the quarterback couldn't see his receivers. Five minutes into the 4th quarter the game was halted and continued the next day. (You can see what they were up against here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH_tOvEyt48 )
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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Oh I loved those TV shows, Bob Cummings in particular. That introduced us to Schultzy, played by Ann B Davis. Davis later of Partridge Family fame.

    Ann Southern, Our Miss Brooks. I married Joan. Gale Storm and My Little Margie, YES.

    Cisco Kid comes on my cable every morning at 5AM. I still watch. I was a big Hoppalong Cassidy fan. Unlike most good guys, he wore a black hat and suit. Hoppy had a gang, which was usually reserved for the bad guy. But he had this travelling posse. Tex Ritter, Gene Autry, and of course Roy Rogers and Dale Evans. On that show we kids all loved Pat Brady, the sidekick with his trusty Jeep NellyBelle.

    There was a show at like 6AM I liked: Industry On Parade. A short documentary about some industry. I liked it for the inevitable film of industrial processes. A stream of cans or bottles whizzing along to be filled, and steel being rolled, whatever.

    TV was all black and white early on. Then - largely I think with a boost from Disney - color came. Shows would open with a claim NOW IN COLOR. Then one day instant replay happened of sporting events. Big flashing letters SLO-MO.

    Candy bars were 5 cents... except in movie theaters where they were 6 cents. So instead of two bars, your dime got one bar and four cents change. These days candy bars are long rectangles. Back then my Three Musketeers bar was shaped like a deck of cards or a bar of soap. it had two little lines scored across the top, to assist you breaking it into three parts. You were supposed to share it with two friends, hence the name.
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    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    I remember those duck-and-cover drills and the air-raid sirens. We were the industrial epicenter for steel production at the time, so we were considered a first-strike target.

    Penny candy was cheap. You could get multiple pieces for a penny back then. Finding a penny on the street was a big deal. As was picking up pop bottles and taking them in for the deposit. We could make enough money with pop bottle deposits to buy tops, or kites and string at the corner grocery. Back then there was a corner grocery in every neighborhood, there was one every few blocks.

    My Mom is still around, bless her heart. She was born in the 20s and she remembers when broadcast radio was a new thing. If I brought her into this thread we'll be hearing about things that are so old that none of us even remember them.
    Last edited by bob p; 04-06-2018 at 05:27 AM.
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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Little balsa wood airplanes we got at the drug store.


    yep, we did duck and cover drills for when you saw "the flash". We also did out into the school hallway drills for when there was some warning. No windows. Buildings all over town had air raid shelter signs on them. Even as kids we knew that in a real nuclear war, we would all be dust. MY dad was a federal executive employee, and while he couldn't tell us, he knew just where in West Virginia he would be whisked off to in case of nuclear war.
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    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
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    Great memories guys!

    Enzo, I'd always heard the Three Musketeers were originally (1932-WWII) three individual flavored "mini-bars" with nougat flavors like Neapolitan ice cream; vanilla, chocolate and strawberry. In WWII sugar rationing saw it reduced to a single flavor (chocolate nougat) that was scored to break into 3 pieces, re-justifying the name.

    1932_3-musketeers_early-edit.jpg

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    Old Timer Tom Phillips's Avatar
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    When we first moved to Bakersfield from Santa Anna in the early 50's we did not have a TV and I listened to radio shows such as Woody Woodpecker and the Lone Ranger. When we first got a TV there was one local station and you had to put a tall TV antenna mast on the roof to receive a couple of the LA channels. In big wind storms there were many damaged (bent over) TV antennas in the neighborhood. I remember when the TV repair man would come to the house. I watched as he took off the back of the TV and changed tubes. Any repair more than changing tubes meant that the TV had to "go to the shop." I saw the power transformer on the chassis and thought that the laminations were the the cards that stored the TV shows. The TV repair man once gave me an old line cord which became one of my favorite possessions along with a wood handled screwdriver and a cheap pair of pliers. I was four years old at the time and my mother tells me that my grandmother was really worried that I slept with that old line cord.

    We would visit my grandparents in Santa Anna and I remember when Disneyland first opened. We could see the evening Disneyland fireworks from their upstairs window. At first I thought Disneyland was where you could go to watch the Micky Mouse club show live. I really wanted to go so I could meet Annette! My grandfather did take us and we used the ticket book coupons to pay for rides. Buy ad mission and a ticket book with !, B and C tickets for various rides like a horse drawn carriage down main street to the Matterhorn bob sled or the submarine. Never got to see any live musketeers though.

    Great memories.

  18. #18
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    Schwinn bikes. If you were between maybe 9 and 12, getting a Schwinn (as advertised on Captain Kangaroo) was like cruising down your street in a 1200cc Harley or a T-Bird.

    I do remember balsa-wood models. A toy store near us carried these little plastic airplane models for ten cents. They were particularly detailed, large, or complex, but you did have to put them together.

    One of my favorite books that I ever read to my kids was this one: https://www.amazon.ca/Pop-bottles-Ke.../dp/0888990596 The kids in the book find a huge trove of empty soft drink bottles, which of course could be returned to the store for money in those days. Their "Sophie's Choice" is between one corner store that has a great selection of penny candy, but the owner insists that the bottles have originally come from his store, and a competing corner store where the owner isn't fussy abvout the provenance of the bottles, but has a poor selection of candy and isn't very civil. To boot, the kids have to behave like bank robbers, and not embark on any spending sprees, lest they tip their hand to the neighbourhood kids about what they've stumbled onto.

    There WAS a time when finding a handful of empty bottles meant something. My cousin and I often spent summer days at the beach near his home. We would wander around the beach asking adults the pivotal question "Are you finished with that, sir? Do you mind if I have it?". Collect five empties and that ten cents would get each of us a Popsicle or maybe even a Fudgcicle.

  19. #19
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Holy crap! Did any of you guys ever meed Abraham Lincoln?

    There are bits of things that held out into my era, but I just turned 50 two days ago and over half this stuff goes back to a previous epoch! I remember things like getting a quarter for allowance and buying a Coke from the vending machine in front of the gas station. You drink the Coke and then return the bottle inside for a dime and use it to buy a candy bar. Then, a little later I made my money mowing lawns going door to door pushing my dads mower down the street. I had to buy the gas though. 52 cents a gallon. My parents listened to country music... and Elvis. But then disco hit the scene about the time I was 9 I guess. I liked dancing but hated the "music". Fell in love with a girl for the first time when I was 10. We met participating in a Walkathon when that was so popular. And MY Schwinn had a tall orange flag on the back. Attached to what we use to call the "sissy bar". It held the back end of the "banana seat" which made it easier to give rides to your friends. Saturday morning was H.R. Puff n Stuff, The Banana Splits and Fat Albert. Halloween candy included wax lips, Pixie sticks, Tootsie rolls and Bazooka Joe bubble gum. Being a westie a little later that you farts I never saw any real racism. I knew a couple of racists, but they were usually pointed out as such and were definitely considered wrong. We even used the "N" word as kids pretty regularly. It was always used in humor, but still offensive. Back then we were taught that everyone was the same, which we all knew was BS because there WERE black kids and Mexican kids around and they WEREN'T the same. I got to watch my daughter and her multi ethnic peer group squash racism in my living room once. See, they weren't taught anything about racism as little children so they made their own observations and made up their own rules. They would tease each other about differences and laugh about it together. It was brilliant.
    g1 and The Dude like this.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

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  20. #20
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Holy crap! Did any of you guys ever meed Abraham Lincoln?
    No, but my Mom remembers Calvin Coolidge.
    Richard likes this.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  21. #21
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    I remember:

    when cashiers could count change without a smart cash register.
    when people weren't glued to cell phones.
    when gas was cheap.
    when "Real Houswives of Wherever the F*&k" and "The Kardashians" weren't on TV.
    when most families could afford the mother staying home with their children.
    when "Evangelicals" wouldn't vote for an amoral lying prick.
    when music was people playing instruments and singing- not some idiot talking over a beat box.
    Last edited by The Dude; 04-07-2018 at 01:58 AM.
    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  22. #22
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    Do you remember hearing stuff like that when you were young, thinking man your old..

    I do and now here I am.

    nosaj
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  23. #23
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Yep. I remember. I'm reminded of this:

    Richard and Chuck H like this.
    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  24. #24
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Something kind of crazy... When I gigged we covered contemporary rock stuff and some 'starting to become standards' (classic rock?). The big rock station in Seattle plays at least half of the songs we covered on a regular basis. And it's not a "classic rock" station. With the exception of some new pop flavors (that don't taste very good) I haven't seen the face of rock change significantly in 25 years. There's a good reason all the old bands keep rolling with more clout than just playing their few hits at casinos. For better or worse, we lost the "arena rock" ideology to NAPSTER. Now we have to pick through a pile of garbage to search for diamonds. Whereas before we were simply handed a pile of garbage with diamonds in it. Anyway, it's strange to be listening to a station that plays popular rock and hear songs I played live over 25 years ago on a regular basis. Sometimes two or three in a row! But then, the "grunge" movement was happening for some of my playing out years and I am talking about a Seattle station. So that may be part of of the reason.
    bob p likes this.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "Shut up, you big dumb poopy-head!" Justin Thomas

  25. #25
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    Ladyfinger firecrackers, and blowing up "army guys".

    I recall buying a bag of "100 Army Men" for a dollar or something. There were about a half dozen or so standardized figures, no matter who the manufacturer was, what the scale size was, where you bought them, or what the quality. There was always:
    - standing hand grenade guy
    - on-his-belly sniper guy
    - kneeling bazooka guy
    - radio-strapped-to-his-back guy
    - binoculars guy (who was sometimes also radio guy)
    - standing sharpshooter guy

    And yes, for a long time the return on pop bottles was 2 cents for a small bottles (single serving) and 10 cents for a family-size. Some stores were fussy about only accepting bottles they had originally sold, while others were willing to accept any bottles. Construction sites were always a pretty safe bet for finding lots of empties, and scoring big.

    Boys (and sometimes girls) had paper routes. My own experience was that they'd often max out at around 100 homes, since the kid had to carry them all. When it came to collection day (and you'd go to the house, ring the bell or knock, and wait for them to find the money they owed), at the end of the day your pockets weighed about 2 lbs each from all the nickels, dimes, and quarters. I think I made somewhere between $5 and $10/wk. Christmas time would add in tips.

    I didn't know Abe Lincoln, because I think he was a few grades ahead of me and, well, you know how it is. Those snooty Grade 11 kids act like they're hot shit and the grade 9's don't even exist. I'll have to check the yearbook and see if I can find the picture of him without a beard. BUt he did insist on wearing that dumb hat, even when the teachers gave him a hard time about it. I think he got sent home a few times and told to bring a note from his parents if he wanted to wear it in class.

    I do recall seeing Elvis on Ed Sullivan in the gold lamé suit. The Sunday lineup was, as follows:
    6-7 Disney
    7-8 Mitch Miller
    8-9 Ed Sullivan
    9-10 Bonanza
    10 Bedtime

    Mello-Rolls.
    Thrills. (the gum)
    Original Mountain Dew. Early issue MD came with a tongue-in-cheek "brewed by" legended on the bottle, with the name of the couple (e.g., Earl and Betty-Lou) that had purportedly made the batch you had in your bottle.

    Pogo
    L'il Abner
    Mandrake the Magician
    Red Rider
    Steve Canyon
    The Phantom
    Bringing Up Father
    Alley Oop
    Dick Tracy
    Out Our Way
    The Nut Brothers (Ches' and Wal')

    With respect to pop culture, there is a major division between those glued to the TV on Feb 9, 16, and 23, in 1964 when the Beatles played Ed Sullivan for three consecutive weeks, and those born too late to have witnessed it. I do recall seeing Jack Paar showing footage in late 1963 of this "fad" that had gained in popularity quickly in the UK. I think the first time I ever felt really old was a time when I was teaching undergrads, and I realized that not only were my students too young to have any association with Woodstock, but their parents were likely too young as well.
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  26. #26
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    IMO, rock and roll is similar to a tube amp in that most everything has been done. It's rare that somebody finds a new spin to put on it.
    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  27. #27
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    Yep. I remember. I'm reminded of this: (Monty Python/*outube)
    I always liked that skit. Well, ever since I was able to afford eyes and ears Back in my day we didn't even have heads at all!

    But seriously... I do get sick of hearing boomers (yep, probably a lot of you guys) tell me how hard it was when THEY did it. Research clearly shows (adjusted for inflation) that cars cost about two thirds what they do now and a house could be bought for typically less than three years blue collar income. Usually much closer to two years income IN A GOOD NEIGHBORHOOD WITH GROWTH POTENTIAL. If I could do that now I'd own TWO! As it is, though, a reasonable car costs half a years income and a similar home costs about six to TWELVE years income in similar markets. Of course I could buy a house in Arkansas IF THERE WAS ANY WORK. So that doesn't count. But I'm not talking about you guys. We all have our own stories and they're all very real. But since my clients are the people that bought when and where the buying was good and they can "afford to maintain their investment" this crap is usually delivered by a guy with half my intelligence holding a scotch. Jealous? Sure. But they had it easier than I do now and I haven't got $h!t or anyone in my family that's going to leave me any $h!t when they die. I'm an Xer baby. We're either rich or poor. Guess which I am?
    Richard and The Dude like this.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "Shut up, you big dumb poopy-head!" Justin Thomas

  28. #28
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Chuck, I have 20+ years on you. Those two decades saw a lot of changes.

    I remember the Korean war on TV, and the 1952 and 1956 political conventions on TV.

    A bottle of Coke was a nickel. We returned them because that is what you did. Then they added a 2 cent return.

    As a kid, I remember the last few Civil War veterans die off.

    Today gasoline prices are always plus 9/10 cent. BAck in the 1950s we had real fractions, 18.4 cents a gallon say. And when your tank was full and you were at 3/4 cents, they would just pump a little extra onto the ground to get it up the the next cent.

    Phones. They all had rotary dials of course. I remember my dad wanting to call his father in Missouri from our Washington DC home. He had to call the operator to set up the call. She called us back once the connection was made. I was surprised I didn't have to shout for him to hear me all the way out there.
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    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  29. #29
    Supporting Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Ah! I failed to mention dial phones in my post #19. But yes, we had dial phones when I was a kid. If you had a friend with too many 9's or 0's in their number you might not even call them because a misdial meant another five minutes of your time !!!

    Mine was the "cold war" era. We always thought Russia or ourselves was going to make some dumb mistake and trigger a nuclear decimation of everything that lives. No pressure. And I knew a lot of Vietnam vets. Two of which checked out on their own terms. One took his beloved Springer Spaniels with him when he burned down his house intentionally after his wife left him. She wasn't getting anything. Showed her!?!

    I did get to eat homemade popcorn balls and caramel apples at Halloween that DIDN'T have razors in them. And I remember being allowed to go into the local hills with pellet guns, or even 22's and not get hassled by authorities. I can remember going to the surplus store at 13yo for machetes AND THEY SOLD THEM TO US, so we could hike into a gorge in the Santa Cruz mountains that clearly hadn't been traversed in centuries (literally) and finding thatched Ohlone lodges so old and brittle they you could crumble them in your fist, with bits of pottery inside. That gorge is full of asphalt and homes now. And I never heard a thing about any cultural finds in there. Imagine!?!

    It is a very different world now where boys can't really be boys so that they can turn into men. I wonder where it's going, but that's a demonstration of my age. I don't understand new culture. How could I when I barely ever understood my own.
    g1 likes this.
    "I'm just going to perform a bit more scientific investigation, turn it up to 11 and rip of the knob." überfuzz

    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "Shut up, you big dumb poopy-head!" Justin Thomas

  30. #30
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    I remember the first time I took the yunguns to visit my mother. She still had a rotary phone on the wall into the late 80's. The kids were trying to make a call. Having never seen a rotary phone before, they were putting their fingers in the holes and pushing the numbers as if they were buttons. Pretty soon, one of them came to tell me the phone didn't work. I had to go show them how to turn the dial. They thought that was a pretty cool thing, so I just had to explain pulse dialing to them and showed them how to dial a number using the hook switch. Even more fun for a young kid.
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    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  31. #31
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    More thoughts on phones:

    You have to wonder how many of the younger generation know where the phrase "dial the number" comes from.

    Remember when you knew everyone's phone number? I must confess that since I've gotten a cell phone with a contact list, I don't even know my best friends phone number- or any other number that I call often.
    Tom Phillips likes this.
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  32. #32
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    588-1675 Well actually JUniper8-1675. That was the house I grew up in, my mom's number for 50 years. 589-2971, that was my friend Sandy's number.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  33. #33
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    I still have a dial phone on the hall table. I like it. It's solid and heavy and doesn't go skidding across the table as soon as you touch it. My nephew doesn't understand why people still have landlines. He says "Why do you want to phone a building when you could phone a person? Some kids don't have books at home. A teacher at the day nursery said when she gives them a book the first thing they do is try to swipe it left!

    But some things never change. The repertoire of bands in the local pubs has been the same for over 40 years.
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    Back in '68 my Aunt and Uncle came over from Buffalo to stay for a while. My Aunt worked at the Trico plant and they had disposable income - something unheard of in my family. The difference in culture and lifestyle was astonishing and their description of everyday life was like an unattainable dream. I think they thought us quaint. I'd never seen colour TV, let alone remote-control. We only got two B&W channels where we lived on 405-line VHF transmission. Some areas had three channels, but you needed a 635-line set and different aerial to get that extra channel. Back then TV sets were available with 405 and 625 line formats, called 'Dual Standard' sets.

  35. #35
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    When I used to teach Intro Psychology, I would have engineering students in the class, who were simply taking it because it fit their schedule and they needed a social science elective. Part of my task was to get the very diverse and numerous (1100 students!) constituencies in the class to be interested in the course content. One of the ways I'd pique the interest of the engineers was to discuss human factors in industrial design whenever I could.

    The rotary dial phone was partly designed by cognitive psychologists at Murray Hill. In the pre-cellphone, pre-multiplexing, pre-answering-machine days, a significant number of calls would result in either a busy signal, or a nobody's home, and to a lesser extent, wrong number. The faster the phone company got you OFF the phone, the fewer cables they needed to install to carry all those calls. Part of that on/off time was accounted for by dialing speed. Human factors researchers were busy trying to identify a human interface that would result in faster dialing with fewer errors. Ifyou recall dial phones, you will also recall a dot centred in the space for eachnumber where the dial came to rest. The dot remained visible as the dial was spinning, and allowed the user to position their finger for the next digit in the phone number, and reduce their dialing time by 30%, in addition to reducing errors. When the change was made to push-button phones, there were early designs that essentially copied the dial layout, but with buttons; presumably under the assumption that it would present a smooth transition. Turned out not to be that smooth so the search was on for an optimal button layout, and various arrangements were tried. What was settled on was a 3-rows-and-a-straggler layout, in which numbers got bigger, going from left to right, and from top to bottom, with zero at the bottom in the middle. That layout shows up in a lot of places these days, because it ended up being faster with fewer errors.

    Twenty years ago, I could have impressed and intrigued engineering students with that. Today, it would be impossible. Not that human factors researchers are not doing anything of note (who do you think designs your car dashboard layout?), but I would most definitely have to find other examples because a phone dial would have no meaning to them.

    Amusing sidenote. My older son, who was probably about 26 or 27 at the time, got into vinyl, by virtue of a (still) terrific music (CDs, etc.) store around the corner from him. He asks if I have turntable I can loan him, and I do, so I loan it. He phones me up, in a bit of a tizzy, eager to listen to an album he had just bought, and asks me how to mke the tone arm go down. He had noidea about the lever in the corner to lift and settle the tone arm. Old tech.

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