a/da flanger question

[rockinrendell]

is it normal for my a/da flanger to have a sort of "volume" drop when on? is there a trim pot i can adjust inside to raise effect level? is it my placement in chain? its an original with ac power. dont know which chip is inside. my chorus(vintage ross) doesnt do this, but the flanger does. im not totally sure if its actually a volume drop or just the way it sounds. i cant remember how the one i had back in 80's worked. i had it in chain going to front of amp. this one is going through effect loop. i do have a hush super c in chain and that may be effecting the a/da some how. any ideas or comments? rendell

[GtrGeorge!]

Rendell,
its a great flanger isnt it?? I love mine..had it for ages. Regarding volume: I dont get a big drop in volume when I kick it in..but it must be said that any flanger is gonna seem like a cut in volume because so much of your tone is cut out when you flange a signal. In fact the way a flange is accomplished is by playing 2 sounds against each other in real time and slowing one down..this in turn causes frequencies to drop out..causing the sound we all know as flanging. They drop out in a cycle (depending on the speed youve set). So with sounds canceling out..your gonna experience a small drop in MEAT to your tone. A little , nothing crazy,though.
I often run a boost if Im gonna do a drastic thing with flange and want the audience to hear it above all else...otherwise its kinda like Atomic punk..there..but not to meaty until you turn it off.
Hope it helps.
GtrGeorge
check out my myspace for fun.
myspace.com/georgebarrysolo

[rockinrendell]

your right on how flanging works. hendrix and the like did it the hard way, on two tape machines and slow one down manually with fingers, then mix the two signals together and you have one of the biggest sound innovations for guitar. i originally had it running in my effect loop with my chorus and my delay. ive since relocated the flanger to the front along with my vox 847(stock),rocktron vertigo(vibe) and banshee(talk box). there is a difference. the "drop" or freq shift isnt as noticible in front. a/da fangers are old school units. they were meant to be used in front of and amp and not in effect loops. fromt my experience way back then effect loops were still in the "growing" stage. i used an mxr distortion plus and an echoplex back in them days.

[Michael Allen]

Head over to diystompboxes.com and read the ADA clone thread in the forum. All the info you'll need. The volume drop fix is common for most flangers/phasers. It's just replacing one resistor that either limits signal or sets gain for an opamp.

[Mark Hammer]

From the multiple schematics I've looked through, it would seem that the quickest fix is to increase R43 a wee bit. R43 is one of the parts that sets the gain of the final mixing stage where wet and dry are combined to produce the effect. It is sitting just to the left of the chip that sits just in front of the Enhance control. If you were looking at the bare board, it would be far right, about an inch in from the edge, and halfway between the back and front edges of the board. R43 is a 27k unit, which has the colour code of red-purple-orange. I'd try replacing it with a 33k resistor (orange-orange-orange) or, worst case scenario, a 39k or 47k unit, depending on how big the volume drop is. A larger value is needed to compensate for a bigger drop.

It is entirely possible that replacing the value will result in the C20/R44 network behaving a little differently, and possibly shaving off a tiny bit of the treble edge. But we'll see when we get there.

[GtrGeorge!]

Rendell...
you may see the ada flange as "old school"...but like a vintage Strat or a 1959 Moderne..I'll take it!!!!
imho, nothing sounds as good. Sure it was an early schematic...but it really sounds great. I have messed with many,many flangers..and to my ears the ada is the best.
The volume drop,as you said is less if the pedal is in fron of the amp..NOT in the loop. This makes sense, as I suppose the pedal was made to be run before the signal gets to the input of the amp. At least, thats what was prevalent when the unit came out (1979ish).
hey its all fair in Love and...TONE!
-GtrGeorge

[rockinrendell]

same thing sort of applies when i plugged vintage tape echos into the effect loop. the echo was real faint and not real spectactular. put it in front of amp and total opposite, it sounds great.

[GtrGeorge!]

well loops are a curious thing. I have seen some that are meant for -10db signals, others that are 4db signals..some that are switchable..and the odd loop that was designed for -20db. If there is a mismatch, the sound can be anemic..lacking voulume and punch.
I dont if that applies to you. Even if it doesn't there are some effects that just sound better at certain places in the signal chain. I teach guitar and this is something I actually go over with my students. Its a good lesson in tone.
And chops doesnt mean to much if your tone is terrible.
GtrGeorge