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Thread: my new winder

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    my new winder

    got one of those legendary meteor winders, a ME301. had to find a little spare part, wow, really expensive.
    haven't done much so far, still doing my winds with my aumann winders. I think, the meteor will be
    the one I'll use when I start making guitar pickups (specialized in basspickups so far) - that's what the meteors were used for by gibson and fender as far as I know?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by basscu; 07-16-2015 at 07:57 PM.

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    Senior Member Jim Darr's Avatar
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    Very nice find. Can you post more detailed pics?

    I'm told that parts for these can be problematic to find and expensive when you do find them...but there was some chap in Europe that still manufactures some (Several years old data and think he might make replacement friction discs that supposedly drive the machine).

    I think Jon Gundry at Throbak has one.

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    =============================================

    Keep Winding...Keep Playing!!!

    Jim

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    hi jim,
    I'll post some more pics that I have to take first.
    yes, it was the friction wheel that I asked meteor for, they charge about 160,- EURO!! got a NOS one from a german supplier at 116,- EURO - lot of money but I wanted to have the original part beside a replacement I made on my cnc-router that works.
    yes throbak has some pics on their site showing their meteor winder beside the historic gibson winder. my inspiration to buy it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Darr View Post
    Very nice find. Can you post more detailed pics?

    I'm told that parts for these can be problematic to find and expensive when you do find them...but there was some chap in Europe that still manufactures some (Several years old data and think he might make replacement friction discs that supposedly drive the machine).

    I think Jon Gundry at Throbak has one.

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    I just bought myself a Meteor 301 as well. It was sold to me under the false condition of fully functional, but the traverse is in need of repair. I knew this was going to be a restoration job so I'm not too worried. I don't know what all the parts are called in this thing and was wondering if anyone could assist? Is the part that you are calling a friction wheel the half-dollar sized transfer wheel that transfers the rate of rotation from the motor to the traverse wheels (floats in between the two plates)? Whatever that is called, it's totally gone missing on mine. There are also grooves on the plates that i think need to be honed out. Does anyone know what the best approach to a fix is? Many thanks in advance for any help. Or just good conversation. My winder and I are lonely and could use some winder friends.

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    hi rdur,
    I had to repair this part when I got mine to get it working. looks like people aren't serious about the fact that the ratio can only be changed when the machine is running and thus destroying the rubber wheel.
    you can get replacements from meteor / switzerland at really high costs. I got one from Start - Wickelmaschinen, (hinzmann) at about 100,- EUR. they may still have this and perhaps other NOS parts.
    good luck, it's a great machine!

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Jim Darr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdur View Post
    I just bought myself a Meteor 301 as well. It was sold to me under the false condition of fully functional, but the traverse is in need of repair. I knew this was going to be a restoration job so I'm not too worried. I don't know what all the parts are called in this thing and was wondering if anyone could assist? Is the part that you are calling a friction wheel the half-dollar sized transfer wheel that transfers the rate of rotation from the motor to the traverse wheels (floats in between the two plates)? Whatever that is called, it's totally gone missing on mine. There are also grooves on the plates that i think need to be honed out. Does anyone know what the best approach to a fix is? Many thanks in advance for any help. Or just good conversation. My winder and I are lonely and could use some winder friends.
    There are three machines that I am aware of that use this type of traverse adjustment system. The REA Fine Wire Winder, the Meteor 301, and the Sincrofil (Made in US, Switzerland, and Italy respectively).

    The traverse rate speed or TPL is made by having two parallel plates, positioned in an offset manner, driven by a movable drive wheel. It is the drive wheel, friction disc, or whatever you want to call it that causes the most problems. Typically the drive wheel is metal with an o-ring type rubber traction ring on the wheel's edge. It is this rubber ring that causes problems due to normal wear and misuse. The rubber will deteriorate with age or by adjusting the wheel's position while the machine is not running. Without the rubber edge on the wheel you get "metal-on-metal" which creates deep grooves on the two parallel plates. If the wheel/disk is properly maintained and inspected on a regular basis while being replaced at early signs of wear, this portion of the machine should last a long time. Never let it run metal-on-metal as more damage will result.

    As "basscu" said these replacement parts are not cheap, but you need them to run the machine properly. The scores on the plates need to be addressed as well. Hopefully they aren't too deep and can be turned or smoothed out. But just like disc brakes on a modern car, you can't true a rotor if it is too thin or very deeply scored. You may have to consider replacements here as well.

    The similarities between these three machine end here at the traverse adjustment.

    I'll post some pics of the this type of traverse system in the next few days.

    Good luck and keep us posted on your progress getting the Meteor back up and running.

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    Last edited by Jim Darr; 04-04-2016 at 03:59 PM.
    =============================================

    Keep Winding...Keep Playing!!!

    Jim

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    Senior Member Jim Darr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Darr View Post
    There are three machines that I am aware of that use this type of traverse adjustment system. The REA Fine Wire Winder, the Meteor 301, and the Sincrofil (Made in US, Switzerland, and Italy respectively)....

    I'll post some pics of the this type of traverse system in the next few days.
    Here is a pic of this style mechanism. Generally, all three operate on the same principle but the layout differs in each. This pic clearly shows the rubber ring in a poor cracked condition. Glad I took the cover off for the pic as I rarely use this machine these days....it definitely needs replacement.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hope this helps show how this type of system works.

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    Last edited by Jim Darr; 04-05-2016 at 12:00 AM.
    =============================================

    Keep Winding...Keep Playing!!!

    Jim

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    yes - ended up figuring everything out. The traverse system is a great little piece of engineering. Still rock solid after all these years.

    I ended up fabricating an acrylic wheel and put a grove around the outside and placed a rubber o ring around it. It ends up working fine. Not sure how long it will last, but I am going to look for a more permanent and accurate fix. I mean to post some pics soon.

    Fortunately the scores on the plates are in the area where a heavy gauge wire setting would be and it's on the opposite end of the plates, so it won't affect pickup winding at all.

    Thank you all for the great info. Incredibly helpful.

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    That is a cool little mechanism. Does the thread running around the two little pulleys control the idler position or does it transmit the idler position to an indicator dial of some sort?

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    Senior Member Jim Darr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    That is a cool little mechanism. Does the thread running around the two little pulleys control the idler position or does it transmit the idler position to an indicator dial of some sort?
    David,

    The threaded rod below the drive wheel controls the position of the drive wheel relative to the two parallel plates. The "thread" you observed is really a wire, like a G or B string, under spring tension that transmits the drive wheel position to an indicator dial. The dial allows you to replicate TPL for a given coil height. Keeping the drive wheel in the same position and changing the coil height will result in a different TPL. So when configuring for a new coil height I count number of turns from beginning of traverse to end of traverse and change the position of the drive wheel repeating this procedure until I get the TPL needed, then I note the dial indicator position.

    I find this particular machine to be great for custom one-offs, prototyping, odd-ball repairs and experimentation. I've had a number of interchangeable winding heads machined that can accommodate different bobbin mounting methods for various bobbin types.

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    Last edited by Jim Darr; 04-07-2016 at 08:19 PM.
    =============================================

    Keep Winding...Keep Playing!!!

    Jim

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    hello meteorists,
    this is how it can work without a 100 EURO NOS spare part!Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by basscu View Post
    got one of those legendary meteor winders, a ME301. had to find a little spare part, wow, really expensive.
    haven't done much so far, still doing my winds with my aumann winders. I think, the meteor will be
    the one I'll use when I start making guitar pickups (specialized in basspickups so far) - that's what the meteors were used for by gibson and fender as far as I know?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ME301.JPG 
Views:	1061 
Size:	711.1 KB 
ID:	34850
    The company I work for owned 4 of these machines, now we only have one left. It still works, had to modify the counter. We make simple resistance coils with it. The rubber pieces last only about two years, where can I get more?

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    Meteor Me301 coil winder

    Quote Originally Posted by basscu View Post
    got one of those legendary meteor winders, a ME301. had to find a little spare part, wow, really expensive.
    haven't done much so far, still doing my winds with my aumann winders. I think, the meteor will be
    the one I'll use when I start making guitar pickups (specialized in basspickups so far) - that's what the meteors were used for by gibson and fender as far as I know?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ME301.JPG 
Views:	1061 
Size:	711.1 KB 
ID:	34850
    The company I work for owned 4 of these machines, now we only have one left. It still works, had to modify the counter. We make simple resistance coils with it. The rubber pieces last only about two years, where can I get more?

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    I have been running these machines as I have been with the company for 40 years.

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    hi frank,
    you can still get replacements from meteor/ switzerland, of course at really high prices. there's a place in germany where they had these some time
    ago at lower costs, called hinzmann, I've posted a link before.
    no idea if there's a place outside europe where you can get spare parts for meteor-winders.

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  16. #16
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    Is the friction idler wheel a stack of leather discs? that's a little what it looks like to me.

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  17. #17
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    I'm curious what is that roll of plain enamel on the green spool from?

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    [url]http://www.SDpickups.com[/url]
    Stephens Design Pickups

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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    I'm curious what is that roll of plain enamel on the green spool from?
    Which green roll are you referring to Possum ?
    cheers
    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by the great waldo View Post
    Which green roll are you referring to Possum ?
    cheers
    Andrew
    In the photo of the Meteor from Basscu, far right in the photo, sitting on top of the bright copper spool of wire. Where do people in Europe get plain enamel wire from?

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    This winder looks like my own, with some differences.
    In mine idler wheel is made out of a rubber and cloth composite, helps it stay together better, stand rubber cracking way more.

    Idler wheel is the "fine adjustment" between 2 aluminum disks but the Right/Left selector handle has 3 positions, center neutral, so itīs easy to adjust the idler wheel, no rotation needed, without damaging it.

    For range selection it has 4 quite different pitch screws.

    I donīt wind pickups but transformers, so mostly use 1 screw, the one which goes from, say, less than 0.40mm to over 1 mm and the one which goes from 1 mm up, never used it with more than 1.40mm wire.

    It was made in 1956 and I bought it from my old (literally) winder guy when he said he would retire .... that was over 40 years ago, and this machine was one of my best investments, repaid itself in a couple Months and since then it has been a great bredwinner/moneysaver ... 2 sides of the same coin.

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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    What diameter is the wheel with the cracked rubber? Sewing machines use thick rubber rings on the bobbin winder and these can be found in different sizes. I've also had luck with this type of thing on the wheels of toys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum View Post
    In the photo of the Meteor from Basscu, far right in the photo, sitting on top of the bright copper spool of wire. Where do people in Europe get plain enamel wire from?
    Hi Possum

    We in Europe have to get pe wire from the USA. I only know elektrisola and MWS. It ends up costing an arm and a leg with the shipping and customs charges. I must be going blind, I missed that the roll you mentioned was green, I was looking at the solder roll left back. Can't see the woods for the trees !!!
    cheers

    Andrew

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