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  1. #2241
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    HOLY CRAP! Hell has frozen over. Even Faux News is calling Trump a liar.

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    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  2. #2242
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    HOLY CRAP! Hell has frozen over. Even Faux News is calling Trump a liar.
    Lying liars, some with 4 stars on their shoulders, telling lies to each other, and more liars reporting on it.

    Fog Snooze long since turned me off, all their so called 'reporters' gag me with a spoon, nobody's seen so many men with so much makeup and eyeliner since the Stonewall riot.

    Things have come to a helluva turn.

    Was anyone affected today by the "immigrant job action?" I mean us here, not what's on TV or in the paper. I heard there was one diner closed in the county, didn't see anything other than biz as usual wherever I went.

  3. #2243
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    "This Valentine's Day can we please fall in love with knowledge again?" Bill Maher

    "This Valentine's Day can we please fall in love with knowledge again?" Bill Maher [@4 m10 s]



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    Okay everybody, let's ALL say it together in a big show of global unity:

    That's what I was told. That's the information I was given.
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  5. #2245
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    High or What!



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    Hello,
    Trump is sounding more and more like a Supreme Commander of a third world banana republic. Those people also surround their selves with relatives and close associates that were loyal to them throughout the takeover.
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  7. #2247
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Have you checked out the Mainstream Media Accountability Survey on the Trump/Pence site? It all started with Sarah Palin complaining about the "lame stream media" in 2008... I thought we had dodged that bullet!

    https://gop.com/mainstream-media-accountability-survey/

  8. #2248
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    Have you checked out the Mainstream Media Accountability Survey on the Trump/Pence site? It all started with Sarah Palin complaining about the "lame stream media" in 2008... I thought we had dodged that bullet!
    Give a prize to whoever invented that phrase, Saraaah definitely didn't have that much wit. I'm surprised she could even remember it.

    About the TRUMPUS war on the press, here's todays to-the-point comment from Senator Admiral McCain, sometimes he still manages to get something right, this one's a definite hit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J_X0gn9Bk0

    "this is how dictators get started."

    I can see ALL media being banned from press conferences and other activities. Except of course Bright Bart, aka Ministry of Propaganda. We're being set up for it, that's what I think.

    Tell a lie again and again, after a while it will be accepted as truth. It worked then, it can work again.
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  9. #2249
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    If a politician has an issue with a specific publication or network - and there have been plenty of cases in past - then name them and have it out. If you have a grudge against the Post or the Times, say so.

    Lumping all of it together is....well, any of variety of things: manipulative, self-agrandizing, anti-intellectual, paranoid, bigotted, anti-democratic, just plain dumb.

    The irony is that he seems to get most of his information from mainstream media.

  10. #2250
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    If a politician has an issue with a specific publication or network - and there have been plenty of cases in past - then name them and have it out. If you have a grudge against the Post or the Times, say so.

    Lumping all of it together is....well, any of variety of things: manipulative, self-agrandizing, anti-intellectual, paranoid, bigotted, anti-democratic, just plain dumb.
    There's a hilarious punchup today between Prince Rebus and Fog's Chris Wallace. Link here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POQNyTPMi_w

    Rebus tries, and predictably fails to support TRUMPUS's claim that they're all fake news. Wonder where TRUMPUS got that idea, when Bright Bart's henchman is constantly whispering in his ear. ‘That’s what they have in dictatorships’: Chris Wallace rips Priebus for wanting a ‘state-run media.’ Funny too, that TRUMPUS seems to have forgotten who was instrumental in promoting his campaign, and setting up the propaganda mill to get votes for him. "Dance with who brung ya" a standard principle of politics, seems to have been forgot.

    The irony is that he seems to get most of his information from mainstream media.
    Indeed, TRUMPUS's source for his "look what happened in Sweden, IN SWEEEEDEN!!!, last night" apparently came from watching a Fog Snooze report on trouble with some refugees in Sweden. Apparently "watching for content" is not TRUMPUS's strong suit. "Reading for content" fogeddaboudit, he does not know how to read, unless Adolf Hitler wrote it, that he understands well.

    For the record, nothing much out of the ordinary happened in Sweden last night. Just like Bowling Green.
    Last edited by Leo_Gnardo; 02-20-2017 at 03:45 AM.

  11. #2251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    Lumping all of it together is....well, any of variety of things: manipulative, self-agrandizing, anti-intellectual, paranoid, bigotted, anti-democratic, just plain dumb.
    Lumping people together works. It's manipulative, but not at all dumb, at least not from the politicians' point of view. That's why politicians have done it from the beginning of mankind and will continue to do so in the future.

    For Hillary, it was lumping [conservative] people together in the "basket of deplorables" to name just one of many such messages.

    For Trump, it was lumping [Mexican immigrant] people together in "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists and some, I assume, are good people" to name just one of many such messages.

    Us vs. them is fantastically smart strategy for politicians seeking power. I would hope that the left and right and center can all come together to resist the clarion call of politicians who seek power at the people's expense, but that'll never happen. Humans are hard-wired for tribal warfare, so us-vs-them is here to stay. And tribes always have chieftains who are elevated above the rest of the tribe, so politicians will always exist and seek power because it has material rewards.

    Trump lumping all news sources together will work--for his side. It's a rallying cry, just like "proud deplorable" became a rallying cry. Bigly smart.
    Last edited by dchang0; 02-20-2017 at 04:19 AM.

  12. #2252
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchang0 View Post
    Lumping people together works. It's manipulative, but not at all dumb, at least not from the politicians' point of view. That's why politicians have done it from the beginning of mankind and will continue to do so in the future.

    For Hillary, it was lumping [conservative] people together in the "basket of deplorables" to name just one of many such messages.

    For Trump, it was lumping [Mexican immigrant] people together in "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists and some, I assume, are good people" to name just one of many such messages.

    Us vs. them is fantastically smart strategy for politicians seeking power. I would hope that the left and right and center can all come together to resist the clarion call of politicians who seek power at the people's expense, but that'll never happen. Humans are hard-wired for tribal warfare, so us-vs-them is here to stay. And tribes always have chieftains who are elevated above the rest of the tribe, so politicians will always exist and seek power because it has material rewards.

    Trump lumping all news sources together will work--for his side. It's a rallying cry, just like "proud deplorable" became a rallying cry. Bigly smart.
    Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and many others were no fans of several R leaning cable TV and Radio mediums.

    What I am seeing is interesting, though I never watch the MSM anything. I don't have cable TV souring my news or flavoring it a certain way.

    I've seen the President say not so smart things, and those are publicized by all media especially the L leaning which is 2/3 of the outlets. I watched this more recent Feb press conference from the POTUS, and it was ok. No, he doesn't talk like Obama, but to me he means more of what he says so far. Most media outlets and social media outlets have vowed to attack attack. That's all I see. Every media source today now just has to be opinionated and I for one think that does us all more of a disservice than the bias that has been ongoing.

    I was never a fan of people and media knocking Pres Obama either. Like you said above, tribal mentality is and has been ongoing. I too feel the margin of middle voters like me is finite. People are one sided. This is hysterical because they bitch up and down that the leadership will not compromise or cooperate. I ask, who the f**k wants them to really? It's one side wants the whole ball of wax. Their ideology matters most.

    Trump didn't win from ignorant stupid voters. He won because one side ran things one way not giving a shit about the other. In the last decades that is exactly what we have seen. 8 years Clinton, 8 Years Bush, 8 years Obama.. so it was R turn.

    had Cruz won or any other, MSM on one side including late night TV hosts, cable news, or HBO hosts and Comedy Central would be all over any R 's ass for anything. If HRC won, Fox and radio hosts would be all over her.

    When POTUS says Media sucks... media lies, media posts stories without context, edits to fulfill their narrative for their side, I can't really argue against that.

    Just like Obama, many on one side are itching to see negative things happen no matter how trivial, and they will pounce it at every opportunity.

    Unity in the nation is becoming a failed concept. Might be a point down the road where the nation is divided in half demographically. One side of the MS can be one way, the other side of the MS another. Honestly, to me our media is a complete failure because they are more about ideologically based narratives than they are the information they report to keep the public informed. Media IMO should never carry bias. All they are doing is capitalizing again on the tribal mentality of viewership and it works to their advantage. Yet it is really funny to watch several daytime shows, news shows on networks, cable shows, cable news networks and print media lose their collective minds.

    I never watched shows like The View, but damn now if the clips they have of the show are not loaded with the hosts one sidedness. It's a joke. Used to love Lettermen show. I can't watch that guy they have on there now.

    Collectively, we all have to work towards unity. Public shouldn't expect much united cooperativeness in DC officials if they can't do it themselves.
    The level of vitriol in this thread is over the top. The same level of hate talk to that of which I never had seen or heard before. Sad.

  13. #2253
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    OK, how do we go for unity? You say the media attack attack, yet all they do is report word for word what the president says. When he says look at what happened in Sweden last night with terrorists, and even teh Swedish have to ask "what in the fuck are you talking about", that isn't attacking, that is just reporting, his own words are hanging him. His own words are shown day after day after day to be total fabrication, not simple errors. His spokesperson claims there was a massacre at Bowling Green, which never happened. How do we report that with unity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    OK, how do we go for unity? You say the media attack attack, yet all they do is report word for word what the president says. When he says look at what happened in Sweden last night with terrorists, and even teh Swedish have to ask "what in the fuck are you talking about", that isn't attacking, that is just reporting, his own words are hanging him. His own words are shown day after day after day to be total fabrication, not simple errors. His spokesperson claims there was a massacre at Bowling Green, which never happened. How do we report that with unity?
    Yep, some has been reporting what the POTUS has said. Some of the stuff is quite trivial, and some like the Swedish statement are appropriate to report. Of course with Trump, you never know if he's just trolling. He did that through most of the campaign. That would be dumb move if so. He doesn't have to prove he won. He will have to prove his is capable.

    Personally, I think he should just run down a checklist of what the admin have implemented. Don't get involved with BS likeable matters. Popularity contest is over. Media knows his own sensitivities, but that is something any person that gray in politics will have to work out. If he can't he may have to resign. IF he does, no different, the media on L would be all over Pence for everything said, or even mispelled. (see what I did there)..

    It's not much different though than what we had under Obama, except the level of hate for Trump is far greater than anything I have seen. Most of that that I see comes from progressives I know of that would be the same if the Pres was dead on about everything and mistake free.

    The Hitler comments are hysterical and ironic. One ideology wants things their way, and f**k the other side. lol. Hitler? Maybe they want less of a democracy than they think they do. Just saying that if this bullshit keeps up, and major civil conflicts, then we may see major segragation attempts being more common than anything resembling unity.

    I have friends that are completely one side or the other. They can't even be in the same rooms anymore. It is so stupid !! Each are dead locked into their party ideology, there is no united alternative or compromise. They won't budge. Pathetic.

  15. #2255
    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    And I will ask you the same question: WHERE do we budge? Where can we find the unity? The president has the psyche of a 9 year old, he makes something up, like boasting that his winning margin was the largest in history, by far, when it wasn't even the largest in the last 30 years. Then when anyone calls him on it, he calls them names and pouts about fake news. How do I unity that? "Oh that darn president, he is just SUCh a card, yuk yuk."

    There is of course the automatic distste from the losing side of any election, but the overall level of "hate" for trump I think is born of his fundamental dishonesty. You speak of no compromise, well Trump is the posterboy for that. Any time someone opposes him, his natural reaction is to double down and up the ante.

    I don't generally like Hitler analogies, and I don't think anyone expects him to build extermination camps. Most of us don't think he plans to militarize and take over the world by force - no invasion of Poland, as it were. But his methods politically are right out of the Hitler playbook. The xenophobia, the marginalization of out groups, etc.

    The Swedish stuff, good lord. He says something with zero basis in fact, says he saw it on Fox, doesn;t bother to get real facts (remember when he took office and was not interested in the daily briefing) then claims the Awful Swedish afairs, this just mere days after one of his spokespeople crows about the Bowling Green Massacre. Another total fabrication.

    So for unity, how much of that total crap must I ignore, or pretend to ignore? Do we just let this loose cannon flop around the deck while we hide below decks? DO we continue to report his craziness in the vague hope some of the blind supportes see the light? When he names people to his cabinet who it is clear he has not vetted at all, do we sit queitly by? Or do we point out that you put someone in charge of public schools who never attended on, nor has ever sent her kids to one? DO we pay attention to the postings to various departments are largely people sworn to eliminate those departments? Or should we just write that off to conservative correctness?

    Just what does the loyal opposition in search of unity look like?
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  16. #2256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    ... snip...
    Lumping all of it together is....well, any of variety of things: manipulative, self-agrandizing, anti-intellectual, paranoid, bigotted, anti-democratic, just plain dumb. Snip...
    Is the correct answer...

    H: All Of The Above?

    Justin
    Last edited by Justin Thomas; 02-20-2017 at 02:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    You say the media attack attack, yet all they do is report word for word what the president says.
    One big problem with the media is that they cut the words out of context in such a way that the meaning of the word-for-word quote is totally distorted from the original intent.

    Let's use the original quote I posted from Trump as a real-life example. The original quote was, "They’re [Mexican illegal immigrants] bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists and some, I assume, are good people."

    Afterwards, and you can verify this by going back into the various newspaper archives, the mainstream media quoted him like this: "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists." Where did the "some ... are good people" go? Maybe in the article but buried in the fifth paragraph, but usually not at all (especially in tweets).

    The headlines were even worse, cutting it down to variations of "Trump calls Mexicans rapists."

    I see this sort of thing every. single. day. (I'm a newshound and read multiple news sources from left, right, alt-right, and libertarian).

    I don't like Trump or his policies, but I do agree that the left-leaning media are out to get him.

    Some conservative commentators (most notably those at National Review) have said that all the mainstream media has to do is to admit openly that they are biased towards the left and that things would be fine. They pointed at themselves--everyone knows Nat'l Review is right-leaning, so everybody's expectations are set properly about the kind of content/messages that will come out of Nat'l Review. The problem is that certain news organizations try to pose as being unbiased when they are very clearly left-biased based on their day-to-day track record.

    You ask about how to get unity--one of the very first steps that has to happen to get unity is for everyone on all sides to stop lying to each other and just state their intentions honestly. The attempts to manipulate others through deception will be met with anger and possibly violence.

    Realistically, though, I don't think there's any point to try to straighten out the news media. The revenue model of the successful modern media outlet is based on clickbait and going viral. This means yellow journalism is here to stay, on both the right and the left. As long as people keep reading clickbait headlines and clicking on them, they will get more biased articles.

    Fake news wins because fake news sells. Ever wonder who buys those magazines that say that Jennifer Aniston is in the middle of divorce every week of the year? It's people who want to be lied to and are willing to pay for the privilege.

    As it stands, some groups on the right and left WANT to be outraged and are in search of justification to attack the other side. The media are all too happy to supply them with the outrage fodder.

    ---

    Regarding the Swedish terrorist attack thing, I do think Trump messed up and got caught. He normally speaks in such loosey-goosey terms that he has plenty of room to explain himself out of a corner, and he did try to do so with the Sweden quote, but it's a bit too far a stretch. His walkback claim is that he was referring to a news report he had just seen about Sweden experiencing terrible problems with immigrants that may include terrorists, not a specific terrorist attack.
    Last edited by dchang0; 02-20-2017 at 04:51 PM.
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    Well, maybe I spoke too soon about Trump not being able to weasel out of the Sweden terrorism thing:

    Donald Trump Might Not Have Been Wrong About Sweden

    His loosey goosey net was just wide enough that he was covered after all... It's actually kind of fun to watch his speeches and then see how contorted the left can get. It's like Trump is a giant Rorschach test; the left sees the end of the world, the Trumpian right sees a messiah.
    Last edited by dchang0; 02-20-2017 at 10:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    And I will ask you the same question: WHERE do we budge? Where can we find the unity? The president has the psyche of a 9 year old, he makes something up, like boasting that his winning margin was the largest in history, by far, when it wasn't even the largest in the last 30 years. Then when anyone calls him on it, he calls them names and pouts about fake news. How do I unity that? "Oh that darn president, he is just SUCh a card, yuk yuk."

    There is of course the automatic distste from the losing side of any election, but the overall level of "hate" for trump I think is born of his fundamental dishonesty. You speak of no compromise, well Trump is the posterboy for that. Any time someone opposes him, his natural reaction is to double down and up the ante.

    I don't generally like Hitler analogies, and I don't think anyone expects him to build extermination camps. Most of us don't think he plans to militarize and take over the world by force - no invasion of Poland, as it were. But his methods politically are right out of the Hitler playbook. The xenophobia, the marginalization of out groups, etc.

    The Swedish stuff, good lord. He says something with zero basis in fact, says he saw it on Fox, doesn;t bother to get real facts (remember when he took office and was not interested in the daily briefing) then claims the Awful Swedish afairs, this just mere days after one of his spokespeople crows about the Bowling Green Massacre. Another total fabrication.

    So for unity, how much of that total crap must I ignore, or pretend to ignore? Do we just let this loose cannon flop around the deck while we hide below decks? DO we continue to report his craziness in the vague hope some of the blind supportes see the light? When he names people to his cabinet who it is clear he has not vetted at all, do we sit queitly by? Or do we point out that you put someone in charge of public schools who never attended on, nor has ever sent her kids to one? DO we pay attention to the postings to various departments are largely people sworn to eliminate those departments? Or should we just write that off to conservative correctness?

    Just what does the loyal opposition in search of unity look like?
    In the last election cycle we saw the serious polarization of both sides. Trump isn't what many from either party wanted. To me, this cycle has shown so much negativity and hostility of both sides, but primarily the supposed tolerant peace loving D's.

    Obama jumped dangerously into remarks many times on events that happened when he had not gathered all the facts. That created and incited rioting, more hate, more polarization, more negativity, and more intolerance, along with excuses to react violently. That was so blown out of proportion by the media who themselves backed most of what Pres Obama said or reacted to. Then they buried the story with other BS while Fox fran it in the ground. Fox was the one network that was the opposition force for the Obama admin.

    Obama was to be the great uniter when I bought his campaign rhetoric since the famous DNC speech. He was far from uniting anyone. He divided more people I know than any other including Bush. He, along side Pelosi, Reid, forced their hands on many things with no consideration for the other 47 percent of the nation. You can't do that. Mid Terms fixed that mess.

    Trump to me, prior to election and now has been a thorn in R and D sides. He is what HR Perot may have been. He is what D and R fear most as far as I can tell. Pelosi swore to media "that man will NEVER be POTUS" and her vitriol as well as others is what got the guy elected imo.

    One side Destroyed Rubio over a water drinking fiasco. Nothing substantive... all I ever hear about it was the "omg he took sips of water" as if that was NEWS worthy? LMAO

    Trump attacked both sides. He had to to win. He picked a stance that rang with some middle road D and R voters. D's went hard full on destruction mode and have been there since. I have FB friends that daily blog the same rag shit from their favorite sites all day, all night. As if there isn't anything else in their lives that matter. That to me is more dangerous than Trump. These people call Trump Hitler when at the same time they actually want and are promoting a fascist means of social connectivity. Irony much?

    I was not on R side when many were bashing Obama. I think there should always be respect for the POTUS. BUsh was very disrespected by the media. Clinton was a love child of the media. HRC was too, Obama was celebrated in every way, and if you didn't like him or his policies, well, you got labeled with a different R word that was unfair. Media used that incessantly which is why I cut the cable cord. 2/3 of one media labeling the other 1/3 media racists. Because they oppose the admin? Pretty much.

    Trump as I said earlier, don't have the experiences in politics. It shows huge. He is going above the ones he appoints into cabinet positions, and probably isn't used to the DC methods of doing business. If he can adapt or not is yet to be seen. OTOH, saying some things he said so far has not had near the impact of some of the unfactual comments Pres Obama made that really impacted a greater part of society in the US.

    Ironically, Pres Trump is in his own way creating a talking point that unifies people on both sides. It may be about negative stupid inane press or tweets he made, but it is a start. For the first time in years, I saw guys at work that are D and R talking about the same things.. lol

    Perhaps his method is to start there. Media is calling him out, and he is calling some of them out. So, he has a huge ride to the acme. To get there he has to work with both parties and most if not all the media disliking him. No other candidate, or POTUS has had that amount of pressure. The bias of the media from both sides was set over a year ago when Trump called them all out on half truths. IOW, he has few friends, so it's a mess. He said he could fix it, so we'll see. He was the only candidate with a message of unity. Kind of a rare thing in a polarized to hell US of A we are in.

    If Pres Trump can be successful, that imo will have such a huge impact on the amount of I candidates that can run for other offices. From mayors, to Governors, to Federal levels. Nobody in DC wants to see that. Media don't want to see that. I think the Media, and D and R leadership wants a narrative of "ok folks.. now you see what you get when you choose an outsider as ANY leader" which could also significantly end any discussion on term limits, SCOTUS term limits, and so on. Personally, I don't see the POTUS getting very far, but he will unite all parties, and media against him. One and done is my guess because fighting all sides, all media is near impossible. Imagine the media loses it's viewership, readership, and find most voters don't care for biased news sources, or late night tv hosts openly one sided? Will a successful Pres Trump create a need for a new unbiased TV and print media? People want things their own way, but Pres Trump is definitely a third wheel. Neither party wanted that since it opens the doors for many more independents, or could increase the number of independent voters, which kills the power level of either R or D. Pres Trump being successful in anything will be of great significance in future elections. If he fails, we won't ever see that again.
    Last edited by guitardad; 02-20-2017 at 09:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dchang0 View Post
    Well, maybe I spoke too soon about Trump not being able to weasel out of the Sweden terrorism thing.

    His loosey goosey net was just wide enough that he was covered after all... It's actually kind of fun to watch his speeches and then see how contorted the left can get. It's like Trump is a giant Rorschach test; the left sees the end of the world, the Trumpian right sees a messiah.
    And I see a blue screen brought on by that link. Beware folks it may crash your computer too.

    Also I see a 24-hour-a-day f---up in the Oval Office and/or Mar-a-goldo. Never seen worse. Even Nixon when he was potted on scotch.

    It would be amusing to see the garbage that spews out of TRUMPUS mouth and off his tweet-pad, then see the up tight white right go into contortions to spin his moldy maggoty sows' ears into sparkly gold designer purses. Would be, except what it is, is pathetic. No contest. Even Fogs Snooze has taken to slagging TRUMPUS, when they notice they've been had, then say something about it, things have come to a helluva turn. 47 months to go, if he lasts that long.

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    SO on a Fox opinion show, an author of material about problems with immigrants - no specifics there yet - sayd things are not as rosy as they might be in Sweden, and the Swedes are not advertising it.

    That hardly counts as LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN SWEDEN Last night. That implies some particular event. Editorials are not evidence.

    Guitardad, your lengthy post covered history, how others have acted and a lot of stuff, all fine, but it didn't address my question. How do I or any other interested person, in this post election time find unity with Trump. How specifically can I overcome his daily parade of fabrications. How do I overlook his bellicose rumblings. The fact that Hillary or Obama or the Pope or whoever you don;t like isn;t always honest is swell to know, but I am trying to figure out how to live with Trump, not Hillary.
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  22. #2262
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    Sorry about the blue screen. Must be some malware-laden ad on that site, HeatStreet, which is not normally infected. Luck of the draw, I guess. I visited the link again and did not get any malware attack.

  23. #2263
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    Here's a link to a Fox News article detailing the incident a bit more:

    Trump may have been unclear, but Sweden experiencing a migrant crime wave | Fox News

    I'll give the whole thing time to see what evidence turns up. The whole viral nature of modern news means that the news outlet that publishes first, even completely unverified stories (see BuzzFeed's "dossier" on Trump), often gets the most clicks (and thus ad revenue). Being second to publish often means only a fraction of the clicks that first place gets, so the media outlets are erring on the side of falsehood and publishing faster and faster. We're going to see lots more lies make it into headline news.

    The end result is that we the people have to sit back and reserve judgment until the truth actually comes out, which could be weeks later.

  24. #2264
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchang0 View Post
    We're going to see lots more lies make it into headline news.
    No-o-o-o-oh, ya don't say...

    When's Foxie's expose' on refugees in Finland going to be I wonder. No halal picnic there either.

    And best of all, how about Switzerland, where the government AND the people invite those who aren't "happy to be here" to get the F out. If you don't appreciate our hospitality, right here's the egress, with a boot print on your butt on the way out. Get along or get out. And they do. I "like" Switzerland, a lot! Show THAT, Foxy pants, I triple dog dare ya!

  25. #2265
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchang0 View Post
    Well, maybe I spoke too soon about Trump not being able to weasel out of the Sweden terrorism thing:

    Donald Trump Might Not Have Been Wrong About Sweden

    His loosey goosey net was just wide enough that he was covered after all... It's actually kind of fun to watch his speeches and then see how contorted the left can get. It's like Trump is a giant Rorschach test; the left sees the end of the world, the Trumpian right sees a messiah.
    It wasn't just the U.S. left wing that jumped on Trump's remarks about Sweden — the Swedes themselves were perplexed by what Trump had said.

    LONDON — Swedes reacted with confusion, anger and ridicule on Sunday to a vague remark by President Trump that suggested that something terrible had occurred in their country.

    During a campaign-style rally on Saturday in Florida, Mr. Trump issued a sharp if discursive attack on refugee policies in Europe, ticking off a list of places that have been hit by terrorists. “You look at what’s happening,” he told his supporters. “We’ve got to keep our country safe. You look at what’s happening in Germany, you look at what’s happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this?”

    Not the Swedes.

    Nothing particularly nefarious happened in Sweden on Friday — or Saturday, for that matter — and Swedes were left baffled. “Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking? Questions abound,” Carl Bildt, a former prime minister and foreign minister, wrote on Twitter.

    Mr. Trump did not state, per se, that a terrorist attack had taken place in Sweden.

    But the context of his remarks — he mentioned Sweden right after he chastised Germany, which also took in large numbers of refugees and asylum seekers fleeing war and deprivation — clearly suggested that he thought something awful had happened.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/w...tion.html?_r=0

    So it turns out that Trump was referring to an interview with a documentary filmmaker that he saw on Fox News. Once again it looks like he has gotten TV shows confused with reality... absolutely NOTHING happened the other night in Sweden!


    Steve Ahola

    EDIT: Here is the segment on Fox News that Trump had watched on Thursday night:



    It should be noted that Ami Horowitz has been a regular contributor to Fox News with his satirical "Ami on the Street" videos

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ami_Horowitz

    Here's a link Horowitz's videos, mostly for Fox News:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Ami+...iw=962&bih=601

    And here is an article reviewing the various claims made in the Fox News interview (which incidentally ran the same violent video clips over and over and over again.)

    http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/g26Lk
    Last edited by Steve A.; 02-21-2017 at 01:06 AM.

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    It's interesting that Horowitz is baffled that Swedes don't want to make the same causal attributions that he wants to make. The banner below asks "What is causing the rise of rape & violence in Sweden?", and it would seem that Carlson and Horowitz know, but Sweden doesn't. I'd be curious what the actual numbers are. Keep in mind that, assuming the rates reported here are unbiased, and use consistent measurement methods, Swden's last reported rate of firearm homicides was 0.19 per 10,000, where the U.S. rate was 3.43 / 10k, or roughly 18x the rate. A 5% rise in the U.S. rate would be roughly equivalent to ALL firearm-related homicides in Sweden. Conversely, a 10% rise in gun-related homicides in Sweden (which here would mean the sort of increase that governments fall on) would mean that the U.S. rate is only 16.4x as big as Sweden, rather than 18x.

    So, the % change might look like a big number, but the actual absolute incidence, and starting point, is quite low. What Horowitz and Carlson call a "rise" might simply not be noticeable by the average Swede reading the paper or watching the news, hence their seeming "inability" to connect it with any influx of refugees. Now, admittedly, gun violence is not the whole story, but it's the sort of thing that would capture the public's attention, if it were noticeably "on the rise", and the data were readily available.

    But nobody makes news-readers or reporters take any math courses, do they?

  27. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    SO on a Fox opinion show, an author of material about problems with immigrants - no specifics there yet - sayd things are not as rosy as they might be in Sweden, and the Swedes are not advertising it.

    That hardly counts as LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN SWEDEN Last night. That implies some particular event. Editorials are not evidence.

    Guitardad, your lengthy post covered history, how others have acted and a lot of stuff, all fine, but it didn't address my question. How do I or any other interested person, in this post election time find unity with Trump. How specifically can I overcome his daily parade of fabrications. How do I overlook his bellicose rumblings. The fact that Hillary or Obama or the Pope or whoever you don;t like isn;t always honest is swell to know, but I am trying to figure out how to live with Trump, not Hillary.
    Enzo, I guess we all just have to do what we always do. Watch things unfold. R's and D's I l know don't like the POTUS. They are a green group, and will get things wrong. He'll be called out by his own voters to deliver on things he may find impossible to do.

    The history matters because it provides perspective. We're only 30 days in. I won't be saying much until well into the first year. There will be some changes. Media will be as under fire as they have never been before. The admin is not afraid to challenge media, or others in both parties. OTOH they need to start getting as many details accurate if they plan on being credible to the people. That's where he needs to focus.

    I've had friends for years say "I'd love to be POTUS" and I say "no you wouldn't because you or I wouldn't know where to even start"

    Unity isn't going to come any time soon. If the Pres can get past the BS breaking in period and move on to the jobs at hand, the next step is taking that to Congress and challenging them to be cooperative. Again, most of these leaders serve areas that have very biased and polarized political constituents.

    Fabrications, half truths are everywhere. Some from the Pres staff (depends on their sources and their own vetting for accuracy), and then the general media as well as hundreds of internet based NEWS sources that are free to publish any narrative they choose. Good luck to any side these days finding Truth... kind of a unicorn anymore. It's like they all have the same issues. We get to sift through the mess. FB and social media has really pushed the envelope, and the bias level is insane. Mostly my D friends who have just gone overboard. Daily parroting of satirical news clips, OccupyD's, and hoards of sites and publications whose facts are just as lacking. R media has the same issues. These sites are just preaching to their choirs, and they care NOTHING about unity or truths. Their idea of truth is based on their own narratives. What they bashed R talk radio for they are themselves no better.

    Unity is beyond just a dream now. Ideology and us vs them mentality are the new means of shaping the populous. I don't have an answer for you, just like there were no answers from the last administration. Societal woes grew at a rapid pace, and we are in a spin off of decades of biased news, biased sources, and biased voters. HRC probably would have pushed the R's just as much, though I would say the majority of the negative feelings would have been quelled by now. R's just aren't as "in your face" as they say, though some groups can be. Nothing at all like what we see on campuses, streets, rioting, complaining about shit that hasn't even happened, or protesting just because. The real shit has not even begun yet. I Imagine far worse from what we have seen thus far. People that lost are not just being sore losers, they are becoming militant. The narratives fuel the flames, so I expect to see a lot of burning in the next 4 years. Nothing at all towards unity.

    I'll say it again, Pres Trump was not a R, nor D. He won on a R ticket, but his own party, D party and most of the media do not want to see a green guy with no experience blow up DC. They don't want to increase the public desire for Independents. They rather things stay status quo. That is how THEY have greased the cogs and their wallets. Few want to see things change. Every outlet and party rejection tried to destroy Trump, now they must deal with that, and they will resist.
    Last edited by guitardad; 02-21-2017 at 04:26 AM.

  28. #2268
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    SO on a Fox opinion show, an author of material about problems with immigrants - no specifics there yet - sayd things are not as rosy as they might be in Sweden, and the Swedes are not advertising it.

    That hardly counts as LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN SWEDEN Last night.* That implies some particular event.* Editorials are not evidence.
    Damn, you nailed exactly what I wanted to say, and in just two paragraphs!

    Guitardad, your lengthy post covered history, how others have acted and a lot of stuff, all fine, but it didn't address my question.* How do I or any other interested person, in this post election time find unity with Trump.* How specifically can I overcome his daily parade of fabrications.* How do I overlook his bellicose rumblings.* The fact that Hillary or Obama or the Pope or whoever you don;t like isn;t always honest is swell to know, but I am trying to figure out how to live with Trump, not Hillary.
    That is a really good question. Yes, I disagree with 98% of everything that Trump said during the campaign and afterwards but that isn't the issue: he has been disregarding practically everything that we have come to expect from a President of either party. In a word, he certainly has not acted "presidential" since assuming office.

    As for your question it should not be up to us to find unity with Trump — after a very close and bitter contest it should be the newly-elected president who seeks to reunite our country. Instead we have him raising his middle finger to the people who did not vote for him, defiantly saying "I won so f*ck you!"

    I am very bothered by his argument that the mainstream media is corrupt and cannot be trusted because they did not predict his victory. The more I look the more I am convinced that the election was stolen by his supporters, first by the email leaks from Russia and then by the late October Surprise delivered to us by FBI Director Comey on Friday Oct. 28th who said that new emails had been discovered which might have new information about their investigation of Hillary but had not yet been analyzed.

    The emails had been discovered the day before — if they were as important as Comey believed they were he could have paid his staff to analyze them over the weekend and anything pertinent to his on-going investigation of HRC could have been forwarded to the appropriate Congressional committees on Monday the 31st.

    Am I making excuses for Hillary's defeat? I am just pointing out how the media had been wrong in assuming that Trump would lose. One other factor: the blue collar workers in the Rust Belt flyover states had always voted for the Democrats so their support of Trump was a big surprise to the media. However I predict that those workers will soon learn that they were sold a bill of goods as all of Trumps actions and appointments so far have been in favor of Big Business and not the workers.

    One thing that the whole Swedish issue revealed is that he gets his information not from his advisors or our intelligence agencies but from Fox News which has been presenting a slanted look at reality for over years, having been created and run by GOP operative Roger Ailes.

    Steve A.

  29. #2269
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    One thing that the whole Swedish issue revealed is that he gets his information not from his advisors or our intelligence agencies but from Fox News which has been presenting a slanted look at reality for over years, having been created and run by GOP operative Roger Ailes.
    Furthermore, on l'affaire Sweden, it looks like Fox was pranked, therefore presented FAKE NEWS which TRUMPUS lapped up and regurgitated loud and clear on mic while congratulating himself once again in front of the Palm Beach crowd. What a clown show, has there ever been anything like it?

    Now for more revolting developments, lookee what's happening with the bright spark of Bright Bart. Everything was A-OK, full speed ahead, until Milo started promoting sex with teen age boys. Read on only if you have a cast iron stomach.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/b...-comments.html

    Apparently Milo and his well known activities are perfectly acceptable and in line with the far Right Wing so-called news organization and their supporters. Until that moment he went public. That's the sort of "leadership" they represent. Absolutely sickening. Don't worry for Milo though, he'll make hay with it, he always does.

  30. #2270
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    Clooney channels Murrow.
    Clooney channels Murrow to slam Trump - CNN Video
    Good Night, and Good Luck!
    T
    Technicians Run the World, but Bankers, Lawyers, and Accountants, Take All The Credit!
    Keep Rockin! B_T
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  31. #2271
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    Donald Trump Might Not Have Been Wrong About Sweden

    Heatstreet strikes me as a less than credible source. This is what they say about NYT "The campaign comes at a time when Times editors have routinely been characterizing Trump’s statements as “lies” and “falsehoods” in the Times‘ coverage of his administration."

    Trump's statements are routinely characterized as lies and falsehoods because they are routinely lies and falsehoods.
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  32. #2272
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    I think the fundamental problem is not any specific lie or fabrication, but rather that Trump just says whatever he wants that serves him at the moment and DOESN'T CARE whether it is true or not.


    And he doesn't care who he hurts. A day or two ago he was at Camp David, the presidential retreat in the moutains of Maryland, not tremendously far from Washington. He announced, "This is a nice place, you'd like it. You want to know how long you'd like it? About 30 minutes." Now if he doesn't enjoy it there, he doesn;t have to go there. But what personality defect makes him have to add the insult? WHy speak ill of the area, the people who staff it, the neighbors, any part of it? Why burn bridges when you don't need to cross them anyway.
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  33. #2273
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    I think his issues go much deeper than that. I believe the man is mentally ill. Google for more, but this is just one of many psychologists who are now coming out with diagnoses.

    Johns Hopkins' Top Psychologist Releases Terrifying Diagnosis of President Trump
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    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  34. #2274
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    "You want to know how long you'd like it? About 30 minutes."
    Well sure, there's no gold plated faucet handles, heck no bling anywhere. I know somebody that could fix it up just right, put in a rack of one armed bandits, some roulette wheels, poker tables, blinking lights, that kind of stuff.

    Camp David probably reminds TRUMPUS of his fake military high school.

    From the Johns Hopkins psychotherapist: “Donald Trump is dangerously mentally ill and temperamentally incapable of being president,” Gartner said, citing his movements and behavior, pointing out the president’s tendency for grandiosity, sadism, aggressiveness, paranoia, and anti-social behavioral patterns.
    “We’ve seen enough public behavior by Donald Trump now that we can make this diagnosis indisputably.”

    Mmmm, yeh, we knew that. Now how we gonna fix it?

  35. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I think his issues go much deeper than that. I believe the man is mentally ill. Google for more, but this is just one of many psychologists who are now coming out with diagnoses.

    Johns Hopkins' Top Psychologist Releases Terrifying Diagnosis of President Trump
    But....But.......But.....he is still committed in saving the United States of America............and he is going to "Make America Great Again"......and it will be "America First".....On a side note......I have noticed that CNN is pretty much the only channel that we watch these days.....because Trump has made it very interesting to watch...actually it is CNN that has made it very, very interesting to watch.....at least it is from where I sit on my couch.......hang on for a minute.....I believe my popcorn in the microwave is ready....time to sit back and watch some more CNN....

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