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Thread: At least one Guitar Center that supports a throw it away society

  1. #1
    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    At least one Guitar Center that supports a throw it away society

    Well the title says it all. Perhaps not all Guitar Center's operate in this same manner but there is one that has been documented on youtube just tossing working equipment in the dumpster. You all might have seen the videos but if not you should check them out. The Guitologist is the youtuber who found all sorts of working gear dumpster diving in his local Guitar Center and posted a couple videos about it all. Now a few items were truly broken but not the majority of stuff he found. Mics, mic stands, keyboard stands, tons of cables, electronic drums kits and all of that brand new. All working just fine and dumped into the back dumpster. He found an acoustic with the neck cracked off and fixed it. Most recently he found a gold top Gibson after he got a tip from one of Guitar Center's employee's (that watches his videos) that they recently put one in the garbage. The worse part is that the Gibson guitar possibly had nothing wrong with it originally and it was an inventory issue or something. Like perhaps Gibson wanted to ship more new guitars to stock in that store and requested that they remove (destroy) this one that was not selling fast enough. So, apparently, it was introduced to a hammer and then was just left in the garbage to go to a landfill. Now I live about 5 minutes from a Guitar Center and have been checking their dumpster lately. At my location none of this is occurring and the best things you can find are shipping boxes for guitars. I think it would be interesting for anyone interested to report right here on this thread what they have found or might find in their local Guitar Center's (or other big music stores) dumpster.



    Oh another video about a broken acoustic guitar...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJUgJYgw-FQ&t=80s
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    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    Oh and here is the follow up video where that Gibson Les Paul Gold Top was found...
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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Well, Fender (and probably many others) tells Authorized techs to pull anything might be used for future light repairs (say, knobs) , so it's not a strictly GC thing.
    The *working* stuff dumped must probably be "mostly" working, but with some small but annoying problem they won't fix (say treble knob on channel 6 in a 12 ch mixer)
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    A customer buys some entry level product, and brings it back saying it doesn;t work right. Under warranty, the store cannot repair it, so they replace it. Fender doesn;t want the dud back. Now even if the thing never had an actual problem, it is in the trash.

    I have a PV something, nice little entry modeller. Customer complains of intermittant issue, PV replaced it. I now have a little modeler.

    I have a Fender Mustang, basic little thing, the little 3.5mm p[hones jack is half broken away on the panel. Still works though. But broken nonetheless. Customer gets a new amp, the old one is trash. Yes I have it. But in a GC store or someplace, after anyone working there has a free cheap amp, the rest will just fill the dumpster.
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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Not only PCBs are automatically assembled using pick and place SMT parts and wave soldering, we are already used to that, but also *mechanical* assembly is automated too, in the long run the product can be made for less than it takes for diagnostic/troubleshooting, let alone repair.


    Freight cost?
    A China-Argentina (remember we are on the Atlantic so travel is WAY longer) 40 foot container freight, just imagine how much stuff you can fit there, costs U$7000 , so I guess China-LA (which has the largest and busiest container port in the World) must be around U$3500, maybe less.
    So Sea freight may amount to 1 or 2 Dollars (tops) per guitar or small amp or computer.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    It's just crazy to me to just throw out perfectly good working gear. I do understand how this works and it is not something new. However, I think donating these items or auctioning them for some charitable good would be better than throwing all this stuff in the dumpster.
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    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    I was the central parts dept supervisor at Pacific Stereo in the 70's and they took in a LOT of used equipment that customers traded in towards new gear. The original game plan was for each store (there were 66 when I left) to sell the used equipment they took in but it kept accumulating so they would send it to the central warehouse. When we were moving to a new warehouse it was decided that most of the used gear would be thrown out so they had the warehouse guys smash it up before putting it into the dumpster so as to not depress the resale value of the gear that they kept.

    FWIW they did open a store with just used gear called Recycled Stereo right across the street from the Berkeley store. And it was at Pacific Stereo that they handed out Radio Electronics Handbooks to support personnel in the service dept to educate us which is what got me interested in electronics...

    Steve A.

    P.S. When I was an HVAC service tech we did a lot of warranty work for several mfgs and some of them had us "scrap" the parts replaced under warranty, which meant that we would hold them for 90 days in case the regional service mgr wanted to inspect them (I guess some companies would send in claims for work that was never done.)

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    I was the head tech and Service Manager for DOW Stereo in the late 70s. Warranty fraud was a way of life. They used to randomly generate repair invoices for stock units. They sold such a high volume the manufactures looked the other way. It subsidized the service department. And yeah, every shop I worked in that did warranty repair required you to keep the replacement parts for 90 days so the track rep could see them on demand.
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    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    Another casualty of the smash it with a hammer war on guitars...



    It sold for $430 on ebay!!
    anotherone.jpg

    I am going to go check my Guitar Center's garbage asap!
    When the going gets weird... The weird turn pro!

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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrGonz78 View Post
    Another casualty of the smash it with a hammer war on guitars...
    Oh my how distressing!

    Nothing that can't be fixed with a bottle of Simonize and some elbow grease, as my grampa use'ter say.
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    g1
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    Well, I guess it was nice of them to not use the claw side.
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    My old office used to be next to a kitchen appliance distributor. When I was renovating my current house I walked past their skip (we call 'em skips, you call 'em dumpsters) and saw a pristine ceramic kitchen sink/drainer. So heavy it was a two-man lift. I loaded into my car and when I got it home there was a tiny chip of the underside of the rear corner - something that would be underneath silicone sealer when fitted. The next day I asked one of the employees why it had been dumped and they said because it was damaged they'd been credited by the manufacturer who didn't want it back, so anything like that goes to landfill. I asked if they got many like that and he said quite a few.

    But then he went on to say that one of the managers had seen me take it on CCTV and everyone had now been instructed to smash up everything that was dumped. So that's what they did from that day on - take perfectly serviceable items and destroy them. They didn't advertise that in their Environmental Policy.

    That was 18 years ago and I still have that sink in my kitchen.
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  13. #13
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    It can get way more infuriating than that.
    An old friend of mine, who died 2 years ago in his late 80´s, was born and grew in Rosario, one of our large port-cities, where almost half our crops are exported.
    He angrily remembers being a hungry child (it was during the Depression, before WW2), going to the port and seeing locomotive fireboxes being loaded with **wheat** .
    It was burnt instead of coal "so its price would rise".
    Same thing.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    g1
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    This is a bit off on a tangent, but still about our issue with disposable stuff. It's definitely getting worse and worse.

    "researchers have calculated the staggering amount of the synthetic material humans have produced since large-scale production began in the 1950s: 8.3 billion tonnes.
    More disturbing, the researchers say, is the amount of plastic waste that humans have produced. Of the 8.3 billion tonnes we've made since 1950, 6.3 billion of that has already become waste.
    ...Of the 8.3 billion metric tonnes of virgin plastics ever made, half was made just in the last 13 years," Geyer said. "Between 2004 and 2015 we made as much plastic as we made between 1950 and 2004."
    Humans have produced 8.3 billion tonnes of plastic, researchers say - Technology & Science - CBC News
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    Not sure if this ties in to dumping gibsons in the garbage but........... they have to go somewhere

    As far as I heard from a customer recently, who works in these places. Gibson is dumping a 600 Gibson delivery every 3 weeks to a local retailer for someting like the next 4-6 months?? I forgot the exact details of how many months these shipments go on

    They're getting an insane deal on them becuase they're buying thousands of new guitars that were made between 2012 and 2015 but have just sat unsold in a Gibson warehouse. The guitar techs aren't happy because now the bulk of work they will be doing for the next however many months will be setups and re-packaging of these guitars so they can be re-sold online and to other retailers

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    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I always like to put things in context. We do generate a lot of waste, but there are also a lot of us, and since 1950 is almost 70 years. Having never thought about it in this way:

    made since 1950, 6.3 billion of that has already become waste.
    That means about one ton for each person now alive over the last 70 years. On average 28 pounds a year.

    yes I realize it is all skewed towards recent years.
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    g1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I realize it is all skewed towards recent years.
    I found the figure about half of all plastic production since 1950 occurring in the last 13 years quite disturbing.
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    Senior Member Enzo's Avatar
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    Yes, I guess so. But even then, in 1950 an auto dashboard was painted steel, side panels were fiberboard on steel, today the whole dash and sidewalls are plastic. Drinks came in glass or steel containers, now all are plastic. etc.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsubulysses View Post
    Not sure if this ties in to dumping gibsons in the garbage but........... they have to go somewhere

    As far as I heard from a customer recently, who works in these places. Gibson is dumping a 600 Gibson delivery every 3 weeks to a local retailer for someting like the next 4-6 months?? I forgot the exact details of how many months these shipments go on

    They're getting an insane deal on them becuase they're buying thousands of new guitars that were made between 2012 and 2015 but have just sat unsold in a Gibson warehouse. The guitar techs aren't happy because now the bulk of work they will be doing for the next however many months will be setups and re-packaging of these guitars so they can be re-sold online and to other retailers
    This could be linked to the closure of a Memphis guitar factory. Also, they are in debt by about $520 million dollars and financial recovery may prove to be impossible.
    https://reverb.com/news/gibson-set-t...guitar-factory
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    yes they are getting a boatload of arhtops, hollow bodies, and semi hollow bodies as I hear

    Edit: OMG this is funny. just talked to my buddy again. A bunch of the guitars they are getting are from the whole robotuning thing that did not end up revolutionizing the electric guitar. So they are getting them, removing the auto tuners and putting in normal tuning pegs and setting up the guitar.
    Last edited by nsubulysses; Yesterday at 09:14 PM.

  21. #21
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrGonz78 View Post
    This could be linked to the closure of a Memphis guitar factory. Also, they are in debt by about $520 million dollars and financial recovery may prove to be impossible.
    https://reverb.com/news/gibson-set-t...guitar-factory
    Competition and quality... kind of like the auto industry but they won’t be getting a bail out. Funny how Heritage in Kalamazoo is doing fine? Here’s another thought that I alluded to in another thread. I check out shops and luthiers in my area once and a while. The old pros are dying out. I know of 2 shops/luthiers within bicycle distance of my house. I’ve gotten some amp chassis and stuff from them when they weren’t being assholes. But.. I did my detective work while there. Both are custom shops. One specializes in vintage instrument repair and custom built Gibson replicas, the other has their own “boutique” line of guitars. I realized that BOTH of these establishments are buying the finished bodies and necks from China by container. THEN.... they simply put premium, name brand hardware and electronics in them, sometimes frets, set and them up. One puts their own name on them. The other says Gibson right on it. (The LP Custom I played that was for a “high roller” in LA and was great). They sell these guitars for as much as $4-5k and proudly say they are “Handmade on site in the USA”. It’s really obvious because (instead of destroying them) they sell their blem blank bodies with attached necks fully finished on CL and eBay. I’m sure this is happening in cities all over the country. They aren’t bad guitars. I just doesn’t seem ethical to me. Quasi-legal at best. But people are buying them. And are paying a lot for instruments that are 80% Chinese. I wonder if the big names are doing this yet? It would explain a lot.
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    I get people paying $5k just to have the Gibson or Martin name (I personally won't pay for it...) But what you're saying seems to be the equivalent of me buying bulk mojo amp kits and then subbing out "better" capacitors and maybe changing the knobs, then putting MY logo on it as though it's my own work and charging $$$boutique prices... Yeah, I would personally have an ethical problem with that...

    Justin
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    "Are you practicing in the lobby of the municipal library? It's still a guitar amp and it SHOULD make some noise (!!!)" - Chuck H. -
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  23. #23
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Big Names as in Famous Brand Factories? ... you bet.
    Lots of players told me for quite a few years now that even "American" Fender guitars were 80% made in Mexico and then just "finished" in the California facility.

    That there was also a small facility, not a "factory" by any means since no Industrial processes were used, not even on a small scale, where a few hired luthiers custom make *a few* guitars, for real Guitar Gods.

    Technically operating at a loss but that´s actually an Investment, so....

    And Eminence speakers now are "assembled in USA", they don´t promise more than that.

    FWIW many of my Competitors/colleagues started ordering PCBs from China ... now some are ordering them "stuffed" , meaning populated and soldered, ready to mount , then "booteek" pedal makers started bringing them fully made, with their own brand; pickup makers are starting to do the same, now 2 amp makers started importing cheapes of the cheap Chinese amps, again with own brand.
    All I tell them is: "you are shooting yourself in the foot, 4 or 5 years after you *opened* the market to the Chinese, they will disembark here in full and junk you in the corner dumpster"
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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    I get people paying $5k just to have the Gibson or Martin name (I personally won't pay for it...) But what you're saying seems to be the equivalent of me buying bulk mojo amp kits and then subbing out "better" capacitors and maybe changing the knobs, then putting MY logo on it as though it's my own work and charging $$$boutique prices... Yeah, I would personally have an ethical problem with that...

    Justin
    Yep ... what they do is order a bunch finished bodies with set necks and cherry pick the best ones. The ones with issues they sell on eBay and CL. The better ones they build out and put their log on them. The replica guy even uses Gibson replica inlays. They aren't bad guitars at all either. Great actually. But they aren't what they are telling people they are.
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  25. #25
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    I'm so glad I build my own amps now... at least I know that I get what I pay for...

    Justin
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    "Are you practicing in the lobby of the municipal library? It's still a guitar amp and it SHOULD make some noise (!!!)" - Chuck H. -
    "When receiving a shock I emit a strange loud high pitched girlish squeak." - Alex R -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    You bet
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    I've been to a couple of local guitar shows where there's a large representation of knock-off guitars. Straight through the door I picked up an 'old' National resonator and the guy selling it told me it actually wasn't a real National. The stand right next to his had some Gibsons. 100% fakes. Each one had a little card that read "NOT GIBSON". Up the corner were some Ibanez Steve Vai fakes - floral patterns and neck inlay. The headstock said Ibanez, but again a little card slipped under the strings read "NOT IBANEZ". This practice was all over the show and I haven't been back since.

    All as though none of this matters. These are traders doing this, openly and without any concern whatsoever.

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    g1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Bailey View Post
    All as though none of this matters. These are traders doing this, openly and without any concern whatsoever.
    Seems everything is counterfeited these days, whether small value (cheap transistors) or high end (extremely expensive wine).
    Fake is the new real.
    It is accepted and tolerated whether it is products or abstract things like words and concepts.
    Without this kind of normalization, we would not have certain people in certain high offices.
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    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    I found the figure about half of all plastic production since 1950 occurring in the last 13 years quite disturbing.
    It bothers me enough to change my behavior. I don't like to buy packaged goods that come in those clear clamshell packages because they just end up being dumped into a landfill or into the oceans. Packaged foods have to be one of the worst inventions when it comes to environmental hostility. Just about everything that Soccer Moms are told to feed their kids comes in a plastic box or a foil pouch. Kids are being programmed to eat Oscar Meyer Lunchables, Cheetos, yogurt, etc. out of plastic/foil packaging and to drink a Sunny Delight out of a juice box/pouch. There's no reason that people have to accept these things, we just do it out of convenience, without thinking about the environmental impact.

    I know that the actions of one guy don't amount to much, but I try not to buy any packaged foods when I can avoid it because it only contributes to the problem. I prefer to buy fresh foods and to prepare them myself, rather than tearing the plastic film off of a food box.
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  30. #30
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    Competition and quality... kind of like the auto industry but they won’t be getting a bail out. Funny how Heritage in Kalamazoo is doing fine? Here’s another thought that I alluded to in another thread. I check out shops and luthiers in my area once and a while. The old pros are dying out. I know of 2 shops/luthiers within bicycle distance of my house. I’ve gotten some amp chassis and stuff from them when they weren’t being assholes. But.. I did my detective work while there. Both are custom shops. One specializes in vintage instrument repair and custom built Gibson replicas, the other has their own “boutique” line of guitars. I realized that BOTH of these establishments are buying the finished bodies and necks from China by container. THEN.... they simply put premium, name brand hardware and electronics in them, sometimes frets, set and them up. One puts their own name on them. The other says Gibson right on it. (The LP Custom I played that was for a “high roller” in LA and was great). They sell these guitars for as much as $4-5k and proudly say they are “Handmade on site in the USA”. It’s really obvious because (instead of destroying them) they sell their blem blank bodies with attached necks fully finished on CL and eBay. I’m sure this is happening in cities all over the country. They aren’t bad guitars. I just doesn’t seem ethical to me. Quasi-legal at best. But people are buying them. And are paying a lot for instruments that are 80% Chinese. I wonder if the big names are doing this yet? It would explain a lot.
    that's one of the reasons that I'm selling off my expensive guitars and replacing them with cheap Indonesian guitars. Today, people are confident that my vintage gear is real vintage gear and they are willing to pay top dollar for it. But with the Chinese counterfeits, who knows how long that will last.

    We're suffering from a multifactoral problem: the vintage guitar market is shrinking as boomers get older and get replaced in the marketplace by millennials who don't have guitar heroes; there is an abundance of high quality cheap gear coming out of the Orient; counterfeit gear is becoming a problem. I think it's a good time to get out.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

  31. #31
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
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    And just to show how painful the dumpster policies are in other industries -- here is a dumpster filled to the brim with brand-new production Buell "Blast" motorcycles. When Harley Davidson decided to shutter Buell, they ordered the entire production line of Blasts to be dumpsterficated.



    No need to smash them with a hammer, they were immediately carted off to a ginormous shredder.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails buelldumpster.jpg  
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  32. #32
    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    And just to show how painful the dumpster policies are in other industries -- here is a dumpster filled to the brim with brand-new production Buell "Blast" motorcycles. When Harley Davidson decided to shutter Buell, they ordered the entire production line of Blasts to be dumpsterficated. No need to smash them with a hammer, they were immediately carted off to a ginormous shredder.
    And back to music gear - there was the legendary event upon takeover of Hammond by Suzuki a couple decades back. The last couple of B3's off the assembly line were reported to have been crushed to smithereens by bulldozer. Probably damaged the bulldozer some.

    bob I thought you were going somewhere. Well it's good to see you still here! Just can't stay away...

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